Career Strategies: David Shifrin
Good. Afternoon and welcome everyone, welcome. To our live audience here in Sprague Hall as well as to our virtual viewers. Via, livestream. I am delighted, to welcome you all here today to, hear, from David Schiffer and our beloved colleague mentor, and teacher on how. To create opportunities. Throughout, your career, I'm. Austrian Baumgartner. I head up the office of career strategies, here at the Yale School of Music as well as teach and their firm of colleague, of David's and I'm, delighted to be joined, in this conversation. With. Students. Kristina, Hughes. Samsungs, and Kevin. Shatner, now. David, Schifrin really needs no introduction, to all of you so I will only summarize, the, highlights of his wide-ranging. And ever-evolving. Music. Career, as a, performer he, has appeared as a soloist, recital, lists and chamber. Musician, with the world's leading orchestras and, ensembles, throughout the world a longtime. Member of the Chamber Music Society of, Lincoln Center since, 1989. He. Collaborates, widely, with other musicians and ensembles. He's. Also very experienced. As an artistic director. Since. 1980. David. Has been the artistic, director of the Chamber Music Northwest, in Portland Oregon. Where. He brings together the talents of up-and-coming. Stars. With popular, veteran, players and creates. Wonderful, concerts, along with free outreach events, and educational programs. At. The. Chamber Music Society, he. Served as its, artistic, director, from, 1992, to 2004. And also. Inaugurated CMS. To the, Chamber Music Society's. Program, for young chamber, musicians, a, faculty. Member at Yale since 1987. David. His professor, of clarinet, and chamber music he. Also serves, as the artistic director of our, an FHA, Music Series as well, as the Yale in New York concert series, David's. Also been on the faculties, of other leading, conservatories. And universities. Including, Juilliard USC. The, University, of Michigan, and the Cleveland, Institute of Music he. Continues, to broaden the opportunities. For the clarinet, repertoire, by commissioning. Works from, some of today's leading composers and, it's, no surprise that, in, the year 2000. He was the winner of the Avery, Fisher prize, only. One of two wind players to ever have won the prize since 1974. So. We'll be hearing a lot more from David shivering about how he created, all those opportunities and, what, you as today's young musicians, can learn from this but, first I'd like to hear from our students, so please introduce yourselves, and tell us how you know. As. An arrangement for Michael coffee of quintet, and mr.. Sniffing was at the event, and later. On we've collaborated at. Northwest. Approach. A program and a, few. Other festivals. All. Right Kevin, my, name is kevin shafter I am a second year masters student and, I couldn't student of mr., Schurr friends. My. Very first encounter I, guess. Was when, I was 12 when I, someone. Gave me your realm, quintet recording Emerson and I've been listening to it almost, every day you. Were 12. That's. Great so. The five of us will be conversing. For a while and then I'm going to open up the floor to questions from the audience so, let's. Begin by asking you David you've, had such a wide range of performer, as a per as a performer. And artistic, director a festival, director and a professor. How. Did you decide to even become a musician in a clarinetist, oh, that's. A good question. Sorry. I can remember yeah, well I grew. Up in Queens. Outer borough New York City and. There. Was not really a distinction, about whether you were a musician or, you played sports you, played stickball on the street and you, played a musical instrument it was, just. Many, activities. Interchangeable. And I had some friends that I used to play ball with one. Who played the flute want to play the cello I thought, well I'd like to play an instrument like my friends it was that simple I, chose. The clarinet, because I saw the movie the Benny Goodman story, mm-hmm, that. Helped. Me decide which instrument, nice and. I know that you attended, the Interlochen, camp, and then attended, their boarding school so, what were some of the highlights that shaped you as a musician from that experience in Interlaken. Well. I think the. First one was going. To a music camp at age 13. Living. Up there with hundreds. Of other kids. Who, were all really serious, about playing instruments, but. Did. Not exclude other activities. They were normal, kids at least in, my perception. Who. Were really passionate about music and that. Made it okay for me to feel that way I felt. And I remember deciding, at that, age at interlaken, that if, he could do this for a living or, as a job that. Wouldn't. That be great it'd be so much better than working.
Great. So what were some of your favorite, moments is it the, experiences. Were hearing people who played much much better than I did and and, being around really world, famous. Musicians. It was incredible, the Philadelphia, Orchestra came, to interlaken Van, Cliburn came up and played concertos, with the kids conducting. You. Know our own faculty, member, annieek apotheon was there at the same time and. She. Conducted. The. Philadelphia. Orchestra, on. One of those concerts. Embarrass. My colleague, but she it. Was a tradition. That after. Every concert. The. The orchestra, would play, the. Theme, from Howard, Hanson's, second, symphony, he, had been a big. Part of the founding of interlaken, and that, the concert master of the orchestra, would. Conduct, and an on this occasion they had the philadelphia orchestra play. But they had ani who was the concert master the student Orchestra conduct. So. Seeing, your friends, and and people your own age having. Experiences. Like this and. Having. The opportunity, to really focus on what you're doing made. A big difference for me they, had a system. Then, which i think no, longer exists, called, challenges. Which. Is very controversial, because. There were auditions, every single week and it was very competitive for. The. Each, chair, in the. Orchestra's and the bands and if, you were last, chair. You. Had the opportunity to. Challenge, the. Other players, and. It. Could, be a. Very. Intimidating. And. Stressful. Situation. There was also an, opportunity. And an incentive for people to really work harder, so we. Were all practicing. Very hard Wow and. Didn't. You tell us that at one point you switch to the saxophone. Well. I wasn't doing very well on the clarinet, there, were some great, players there, like, Frank Cohen, who's still. Principal, in the Cleveland, Orchestra came, right, after me. To that job and he was he was first chair in the high school orchestra and Lauren Levy who, played for many years in the Los Angeles Philharmonic was, there and I was way down the totem pole and. I wanted to play so I, looked, at, what the opportunities that. Were. Available and. Saw. That the repertoire, involved, a lot of saxophone. Pieces. Like Missouri's. Pictures at an Exhibition and. Prokofiev. Romeo, and Juliet, that had orchestral. Saxophone, so. There. Weren't that, many saxophone. Players so I took up the saxophone and practiced really hard and got to do a lot more playing, that way and. What brought you black back to clarinet. The. Saxophone, teacher Donald, senta who was a great colleague, and mentor over the years and who, was my teacher that summer of saxophone. Convinced. Me that that, the repertoire was stronger, for the clarinet. Great. So yeah, I went back and, I know that you did a lot of performing. And touring when you were at interlaken. Well. That was a great model in those days for. Showing. Kids what, it's like to be a musician because, they put us on the road we. Played, a. Different, orchestral, concert every week and. Got. In a bus and played in all the small towns in Michigan went down to Chicago played, in Orchestra Hall came. To New York played in Carnegie Hall and, Kennedy. Center in Washington. So. For for. Kids to have that kind of opportunity and. Experience, at that age kind. Of demystified. What the concert life was like and I think, a lot of the kids who went through that. Were. Able to deal with some of the, stresses. And stage fright sand and, I think others found. That experience, to help them decide not to go into music it's, it was it was exposure. At an early age all. Right so, you obviously decided to continue your studies and you went to Curtis. I did so. I I, know one story you told me I'd love for you to tell the group is how you started, your first ensemble. Well. I told you about you, good, at these questions. The. Experience. Of interlaken, was so intense, and there were so many playing opportunities. That. When I went to Curtis which is one of the great conservatories. In the world I felt. Like I didn't have anything to do it. Except, practice, of course and, my lessons, were great but. There was a very, strict, seniority. System at the at the time and being a freshman I didn't get to play in the. Orchestra very, much or in the woodwind chamber music class. And. I was just, itching to do more so I. Found. That there were several. Others. In my position who felt that way so we would get together and play chamber music had. The police come to my apartment one night after, midnight for we were playing Mozart, wind serenades, and the neighbors had complained, that, we created. A disturbance so. People. Loved chamber music but maybe not in every, situation.
I. Thought. It, would be nice to do more of this and I, was working at the time as an usher at the academy of music for the Philadelphia, Orchestra concerts, to make some extra money and at, a music publisher, fellow. Named al, vos had one of these, presses. That used to print. Music, on, onion skin paper, and, used ammonia, and. They don't do that anymore, but. He. Was hiring students. To help in there and you spent all day, when you were working with, this terrible, smelling. Printing, press of ammonia, and. That's how if, you have any of the old music that was printed in the 60s and 70s, you, can almost still smell that ammonia on the on the parts so. I was looking for other ways to make some, money and and play. The clarinet and I. Got the idea, to get. Some stationery, printed, up with the name of a woodwind quintet that we took from the the. Street or the square outside of the Curtis two can call that the Rittenhouse, quintet. And I got four of my colleagues. Together, and. I got a catalogue. Of chamber. Music presenters, in in the eastern, states, and, got. The. Stationery together and wrote letters said. We have one of the greatest whittling, quintets of. The, next generation, of now. Available, for touring, next, season, and. I sent, about a hundred of these letters and. Lo. And behold I'm. Many. Of them were not answered got, a couple of polite rejections, and I got a few letters back saying yes, we'd like to engage your quintet and. That. Was my, first professional. Experience. As. A manager, and. As a chamber, music performer, hey we went to some colleges, went and. It, was really quite. A. Astounding. Experience I really didn't expect that much to come of it well. So what's great in this is that you just tried and like, a lot of people today you tried a hundred things and got a few and a few responses, and so I guess, early on you were able to deal with the fact of a musician's, life which is how to manage rejection oh yeah. For. All the auditions that I think any of us have succeeded, in you. Know we don't really Chronicle, all the ones where we've been turned away right. Was. Your success, with creating that sound like there's an. Affirmation, of your first. Days of entrepreneurship. Like did you did. Have plan to sleep in the back of your head. Well. I I did, remember that for. For, the future I tucked it away and. It's. Certainly something that that. We all learned there's a there's there's. A certain amount of oh. I. Suppose, of, sales, that, that, anybody. In any. Career. Or any. Profession. Has to engage in it can be subtle it can be unconscious. But. You. Can be very gifted very talented. Unless. You. Let. People know that, you're. Interested in doing what you do and you're, available to do what. You do and that you are reliable. To. Do, what you say you can do and show. Up. You. Have to get that message out somehow, we all do I'm, very. Very impressed with some, of the. Initiatives. That I've seen here at Yale the cantata. Profanities. Come together and, place so. So. Well together and it's really organized. David, Perry who was in the clarinet studio a couple of years ago I started this second, movement group Sam. Here has his jazz trio, and, this is an is really. Quite an entrepreneur, doing other things. As a wonderful composer you told me today you're you're. Writing. Some music for the Yale cabaret. If. You feel like you, can do something and it's something that interests, you you have to find ways to to. Make it happen so it's, really interesting because, you. Told me that you, were told by your teachers that one, could not make a living as a chamber musician, so then you decided to pursue, the audition. Route and get an orchestral career. Going so tell us a little about your early years in Orchestra, oh well. As. A student, at Curtis and at various.
Summer Festivals, studying with with other teachers I, would. Audition. For, the Concerto contests. And try to play chamber music and recitals and and. Would. Tell my teachers, that that's, what I wanted to do for a living and they say well that's really great and you probably get some opportunities, as. Long as you have. A job in an orchestra, and the way to make a living, so I took that very seriously and. Practiced. Very hard and took those orchestral. Auditions, and. Wound. Up doing. That for a few years and, I, enjoyed. That music very much but it's nice to have a wide range of experience, as well right, so, how did you make the switch from your, orchestral, career to. The. Next phase of your career, well. Things progressed, very quickly for, me in, orchestral. Playing. Stuffs. Keys Orchestra American, Symphony and then the, Honolulu, Symphony and. That was that, was really a big decision to move all the way out there and it was probably. Even bigger decision, to leave it's such a beautiful place I came back to Dallas, and played in the Dallas Symphony for, a while and, then. Was, very fortunate to win the, principal. Job in the Cleveland Orchestra but, I was really too young for that I was that the, the only. Principal. Wind that Lorin Maazel had, hired that's, far in, the, orchestra and, was. At least 20 years younger. Than all the other players. And. I was really quite in awe of them I had studied, there in the summertime and it. Was just overwhelming to, be doing. All of that repertoire. And, I. Think. For Mosel he was pretty new in the orchestra then too with he. Had. This incredibly. Long illustrious. Career but that was, a new job for further. Maestro, and I, think, he was under a lot of pressure and, the one person that he had hired in the wind section that, he that, he could hold most, accountable, with me and I. Felt a lot of pressure and I, wasn't quite sure if I wanted to continue. After. A couple of seasons, I had, a amazing. Opportunity. That offered, to teach at the University of Michigan, and to. Have freedom. To. Play. Concerts, just, as. The, faculty, at most music. Schools including, Yale have. To, meet, your teaching schedule. And find. Ways to. To. Be a performer, be a composer. Express. Yourself musically. Faculty. Members are encouraged, to. Publish. Or perform. Record. And that, was the case at Michigan, and at. That stage in my life I thought. Well I can still try. To follow. My. Earlier aspirations. To have a different kind of a career. As a clarinetist, I. Was. Still in. My, 20s, so I was able to go to some international competitions. And. Had. A lot more time to practice, and. And so it was a complete. 180 from. Having. A schedule that, was given, a year in advance where you knew where. You were going to be rehearsing, what. Piece you were going to play when. Time your breaks were going to be and, what time to get on the bus. What. Time your meal was going to be for. The entire year, every day of the year as a member of an orchestra, -. Having. The, opportunity. To make my own schedule and. The. Responsibility. To make my own opportunities. And. It, was very very. An. Informative. And, formative. At the same time what sounds like you enjoy your freedom, and having artistic, license, which i think is an important, characteristic. Of a lot of successful, music musicians, today's you figure out what. You're all about and how you can align your career with that it, sounds like you've done a really good job in being able to do that and laying the seeds in Michigan, where, I believe you created your first concert, series. Well. Things. Didn't progress quite as quickly as I would have liked I wanted, to be playing, more in the first couple of years so, well, let's. Let's. Put on a show I remember all those Mickey Rooney. Let's. Put on this show, the, Dean at the time was. Was very helpful. And supportive and. Assigned. A, work-study student. To. Help me form. A series and other, faculty members at, Michigan. And members. Of the Detroit Symphony which is only an. Hour's drive away from, Ann Arbor. Colleagues. In the Toledo Symphony, which is also an hour away Bowling. Green University, remember. Pianist Paul Shawn field great, composer, was. On, the piano faculty, at the University of Toledo then, and we gathered. Musicians. To, at the the. Student. Union and. Put. On a series of chamber music concerts, that was. Very, well received and, was. Very, enjoyable. I'm. Just really curious to hear about how you dealt with having so much success at a young age because I remember reading you. Were playing with the American Symphony Orchestra at age 20 at, 21, you were teaching at the University of Honolulu, and shortly, after you were in the Cleveland Orchestra so what was it like teaching.
Students, Close, to your age and, oh that, was an interesting phenomenon. That actually one of the still. To this day one of the most incredible. Experiences. Was being, thrust into the role of a teacher. Principal. Players and orchestras are often, asked. To teach it at the local music. School University. When. That when they're given. The orchestral position. And. That. Was far more, daunting. To me than. Playing, in the orchestra or, playing. The clarinet was whatwhat am I supposed to tell these people I, remember. Calling my former, teacher Fred. Ormond who had been my teacher at the Interlochen, Arts Academy I think. What should I do, what, am I supposed to tell these kids these are you listen to them you'll know and remember. The. Remember. What you, were taught by your teachers, and and I. Enjoyed. It so much I became good. Friends with, a lot of my students who were my own age and. It. Was a unique, situation that. Is the University. Of Hawaii the, Manoa, campus and, Honolulu, it's in a beautiful. Place. You. Are, isolated. In Honolulu. And. That. Can be that. Can be a difficult situation, but. It can also be an opportunity for. A. Young teacher just starting out because I had such, talented, students it, was very rare that, that, the, students would. Go, off the island for their undergraduate, work so the most talented, kids were. Still there in Honolulu, and. I, went. Back 2025, years later and they were. Many. Of them were the band directors, of all the high schools in, in. In Honolulu, and they, had chosen, that for the career and were playing. Occasionally. With the Honolulu Symphony we're playing in all of the the clubs and Waikiki. It's. Not a place that people really want to leave and. And. So there's a lot of talent there whose it would grown. Up there in state and that was the case in. The in, the student population as well so, I was very lucky, for me to get, to work with talented, students, right from the beginning of my teaching career. No. It's no good could you talk a little bit about, the. Difference between teaching. My. Teaching, or or. How. I. Think. It's always been such an individual, thing. If. There's any major. Difference, in teaching the, playing. Of it of an instrument. Is. That I think most, of the people I know now are, less, dogmatic. Then. When. I was a student and not to criticize my, teachers but I. I. Studied, with a few. Teachers. Who were, extremely. Convinced. That there was one way, to. Produce a sound than the instrument. One. Type, of equipment to. Use. A. Specific. Tempo. For. Every major piece. Of repertoire. Articulation. That was absolute. And. And. This was the way it was done and, that, was the way they had learned I think that. You. Know of course when. I was a student there were already long-playing. Records, and radio, and, television, but. But, since then. It's. It's, the, proliferation, of the, availability, of ideas. And different. Styles. And different ways of teaching. Certainly. With the internet and it. Is that. Every. Student can find out other, ways. Than. What you're telling them so. You need to justify a, teacher needs to to, at least have a good reason for asking. A student to do things a certain way and. For. Listening. And examining, other ideas, so, I think the. Teaching, of. A. Art, form and a practice, that's been around for, hundreds. Of years, has. Has, evolved, in the same way that every other access. To information in, history is. That's. Really interesting that you talk about yourself. As a teacher and your own teachers so maybe tell us a little about your mentors, sound. Like they were important, to you I. Had. A few really. Wonderful. Teachers, might my. First clarinet teacher was, that was, the junior high school music teacher a man named Lewis Carroll. Spelled. It differently than the author. But. He. Conducted. The orchestra and, our junior high school and taught private lessons to all the kids and the neighbor at every instrument and. He. Just loved music and he loved working with kids and. It. Was a great mentor to I, think. I was 10, years old 9 or 10 years old to. Me and I saw how he was with other students, as well and. He. Was the one who suggested, that, I go. To the. National. Music camp at interlaken, and told, me about the Curtis Institute of, music which, my parents were delighted with because. Curtis. Is a full squiz full scholarship, school years. Before Yale was yeah, so, he. Was a great mentor, and then at interlaken, my teachers herbert, blamin, who was the principal. Clarinetist in, the metropolitan, opera was. My teacher at interlaken, in the summer and then when, i came back from the from, the summer camp I worked with him in New York as a high. School student and then went back, to interlaken full-time, stated.
With Fred Orman who is still a close friend and. And. A mentor somebody that I called. For advice about teaching. Donald. Sinta the saxophonist. That at michigan who i mentioned, a few times. Were. Great, influences, my teachers. Anthony. Jyoti, at, curtis, and. John. De lancie who, conducted, the the. Wind class every. Single week at, curtis wind chamber, music and. Robert. Marsalis, who for, many of us still is the, ideal. Clarinet. Tone that we all tried to emulate who. Had been in the Cleveland Orchestra, from. The, 1950s. To the 1970s. And. I know you serve as mentors for, lots of young people here. And elsewhere so. How should you, musicians, go back trying to cultivate mentorship. Relationships. How. Should the young musicians, well. By. Doing what they do and exhibiting, a, certain. Level of initiative as. These. Three can attest, I'd love to hear about some. Of the things that you three are doing I know Sam. And. And, his ranging. And composing, and his, jazz, and. He. Found. Another outlet for his creativity. By. Playing the accordion as. A virtuoso. And. Does. Not shy to. Exhibit. That I know. That that Kevin, has. One. Of the most unusual, backgrounds. For a young young, man that I've ever, known. Having lived. In so. Many diverse. Places. Kyrgyzstan. Laos. Was. A Romania. And. Your. Parents, Kevin's. Parents work. For UNICEF, and. You've, grown up all over the world and. How. I'd, like to know from you how that's how. First of all how you've kept, your focus, in. Being. A clarinetist, because, you have a great, focus, and and, real. Real, commitment, to the instrument, living. In all of these diverse. Cultures. And, how. That has affected how, you have shared. That with the world because I know you've done some, things in Central America and, helped, bring instruments. To other. To. To kids. Who need them in different countries, and taught. Yeah. Well. The, year I started crying at my family happened to be living in Romania which, was a great place to start any instrument because I had a rich traditional. Classical music and I was studying with great teachers so, I had two great years of clarinet study there and then. My. Family moved to India where, it was the, polar opposite or a desert, in. Terms of Western Western music, right you.
Know They have a. Incredible. Very very rich traditional. System. Of music that's very advanced, and I just. Amazing did you involve. Yourself in I tried. To I tried to but it's so different that it was you, know how, old were you at that point at, that point I was about. 12. 13. So. At that point I sort of had to make the decision whether or not to, stay in India and maybe go take a different path because I wasn't. Really learning anything with clarinet or go. To the Interlochen Arts Academy. Music. And. And. So I ended, up doing that but. The experience of living in India. First. Of all there were no teachers and also it was very very difficult to buy any, sort of equipment, for the client reeds. Mouthpieces. Are there. No symphonies. There. Is neodo in Bombay, but, back, then booth, not really so. That, led, me to the idea of creating an organization that, brought, instruments. And teachers, to countries where kids, may not have access to. Those two things so, long yes when you're still doing that yeah. But, not during the school year all. The time. Yes. Great no it's great. Christina. This. Is your second year here. At Yale yeah, and you were at New, England Conservatory yes. I went to New England Conservatory for, undergrad. Where. Else have you lived. And performed. Well. I guess this is sort of related to to. Kevin I last, summer. In. 2013. I went, to Kenya with a wind quintet, and. We. Did. That come about um. My. Friend Midori, Samson. She's a bassoonist. She. Went to Julliard and she's really interested in community outreach and she's extremely, proactive, and. A, group of dancers would, usually go to Tanzania and, two. Of them met someone, after a performance, and brought, them to this school that he owned in, the, slum of Nairobi and, they, performed, there and they wanted to go back with their dance group but they couldn't they. Weren't able to get there so they passed off the group to Midori and, Midori. Kind. Of pulled together some, friends and she told me I'm the only flutist, she could travel across. The globe with. And. So. We were there for three weeks mainly, two weeks teaching in a slum, at. A school, that doesn't have a music, program and, then. We also taught at a couple, of other other schools that did have, programs, but instruments. They're really, rare and very, expensive. So. I know we were talking with. Kevin because we're planning on returning. Right. Fantastic. Did. Did. They respond well to the music that you played I. Think. So I mean a lot of it was pretty, different I mean we also were playing so. Much wind, quintet repertoire, is 20th, century, so if. They never heard something, classical, it was something more traditional but. We, even played actually, in, of. Masai. Village. Because. We, had. A couple like three days off and one day we went on a safari and we stopped in a masai village and you can go around and we brought our instruments, and we played we, played like a tea for them they thought it was really bizarre, and they held our music for us if we didn't have stands, oh. No. That's fascinating. To hear about these different, types of opportunities. That the, young musicians are pursuing in community-outreach and, I think you've had that experience in, Portland, so maybe you can tell us a little about your. Role, there. Well. I feel like I've, grown. Up with that. That. Experience. In Portland, I started. Going. There and. A pretty, early agent, I was in my 20s, and I've gone there every summer, since.
And. My. Predecessor. In. Portland. At Chamber Music Northwest, was a violinist, from Romania, the. Name surger Luka who, had been on tour in Portland, and, found. That the audience really loved the chamber music and and. Arranged. With with some, of the the. The. Pillars. Of the community to. Raise some money to have a few concerts, and they grew into a festival, that. Exists. Now where we have concerts almost. Every single night for five weeks and. And people. Attend them. Sam. Was part, of that last, summer and. Part. Of that effort has, been to, become a part of that community in the sense that. We. We. Meet. The youngsters. Who are playing instruments, and they can come to rehearsals. We coach. Some of them Sam was involved with a lot of those things you went to the Community, Music School, and. We. Did. I. Love. Chamber music for many reasons, the the the the. Incredible, depth of repertoire. The. Inexhaustible, supply, of masterpieces. That we get to play but, it's so portable we. Can go into schools you can go into a masai village you. Can go into a night club and, and. You. Know sometimes, want. To tailor the repertoire to the venue but. Chamber. Music is a great way to. Reach. Out, to. Use. That as a it's, become, kind of a cliche. Outreach. But. We. Ought we hear so often about. The. Curtailment, of funds for arts. Education music. Education, in the schools and, and. The. Aging, of audiences, for the, Arts, and for classical, music in particular and. Much. Of the responsibility is, then put on the performers, say well if you want to perform classical. Music you have, to find. Your audience and cultivate, them and so all. Of these kinds of experiences, on a global, level. Are very very. Important, and. They're. Completely. Worthwhile. It's. Quite. Extraordinary, that, that. Anybody. Would have. Any. Doubt that that. Classical, music will be here for centuries, it's. It it's, pretty, great stuff and, those. Of us who believe in there they're gonna keep doing it and make, opportunities. For. That, well. And what I love is how you, actually created, a chamber music career, so they said you could or you and you did it and so we have you know you were Michigan, you got all your friends together to play by, the way tell us more about that because it, seems like you've met some interesting people early, on in your career who, still continue to be in your, professional. And personal life when, you mention antique Avakian but there are several others aren't there well it's. You. Know we talk about these global. Experiences. But. The world of classical. Music is not that big and the. People who you, meet were, meaningful, in your life and, with whom you work, tend. To show up. In. In. Different. Places you know that. Some. Of the musicians that I've worked. With for decades. And who, are Americans, I've, met at festivals, in Europe and and, some of the the, musicians. That I went. To music camp with, in the 1960s. I. Would, lose touch with and, then. See an. Another music festival, or at Lincoln Center when, we were put together to play in a group at, Alice Tully Hall and so. It. Keeps coming around and, being. A performer. Who. Tours. As. We all do. It. Is a, way, to keep the community, of musicians intact. People that, then. I went to school with my roommate. For I think about my friend Jan sloman was my roommate at Curtis we shared an apartment on the fifth, floor walk-up over an antique store. And he. Went and got. A, job as, the associate, counsel master of the Dallas Symphony, years. After I was in the orchestra, ordinarily. That. Would probably, be the. Most you would do is these. Days to see a friend on Facebook or, send. That send a Christmas card but, being a musician you and touring. You. It's an opportunity, to keep this extended. Family, almost of, friends. Intact. Because. Sooner. Or later you're, in town or, you're in a place that that. You. Don't think you know anyone, and and. After, the performance you see wait a minute I, oh. My, gosh it's you, that.
Happens All. The time, well isn't that how you how, you got to Chamber, Music Society of Lincoln Center well. You mentioned that. Earlier. Coming. To Portland, Oregon from. The University, of Michigan. And. And and playing, in ensembles, I saw, musicians. That I had known as a, camper, at interlaken. And. Hadn't, seen for years and. Rekindled. Old friendships, met some new friends fred. Cherry the cellist. Was. Playing there when. I first started and a few, years later he. Was directing. The the. Group at Lincoln Center the Chamber Music Society and. Wound. Up asking me to come and play there and then. When I was the director I asked him to play and there is a lot of that. You. Tend. To work with people who who. You know and trust and, admire and there's. A kind, of a larger. Repertory. Company, of chamber. Musicians, who. Go. From festivals, the festival, and series to series and sometimes. Involves. Entire. Ensembles. That work with other ensembles, and individuals. But. I would, sometimes. Try, to calculate, how, many musicians, I know who. Earn, their primary. Living, from playing chamber music and I think there are few hundred, that, I know of and that's, probably it so you. You. Do tend to. Stay. In touch I'm. Thinking of Americans, I'm sure you know there's, a whole it's. Interesting how. There. Are such amazing musicians, in Europe as well. And and. We don't, we. Don't see each other that often, especially. And. Regrettably, since. 2001. Because. It's. Much more difficult to, tour, internationally. Especially, for. Musicians. From other countries, and performers from other countries, to come to this country. Since. Homeland. Security, and and. The. Protection, is so, so. Stringent. So. Go, ahead and a question about um just, with festivals, or how you got that opportunity with the, Chamber Music Society you, asked, your friends to play in festivals, you began or they asked you have. You ever had any to. What extent have you had a trying experience in. An ensemble that tested, your ability to remain professional and, then even stay, friends, outside of the, room. Oh. That's. A hard question to, answer publicly. Generally. Speaking. There. Are a number of reasons that people. Will. Want to work together and it's based on past experience, being, being. Productive and pleasant and. So. Generally. I've. Had wonderful experiences with. With. Most. Of the musicians I've had the. The. Opportunity to work with it and. So. But. Chamber music. Rehearsals. Are, probably. As close in, the arts as as we, come to group therapy and. And. You. Know we we're. Always. Describing. Chamber, music as. Music. With long apart music without a conductor. Democratically. Conceived. And. Collaboratively. Prepared. And, so. That I. Think. Experienced. Chamber, musicians. Who. Have. Some, longevity in, their careers. Learn. A certain diplomacy. The, way, the. Way politicians. And States.
People. Have. To learn that there's a certain language of. Discourse. In. Working together, and. Then. Who. You go out and have a drink with after the rehearsal of the concert is your own business but. I think in professional, situations, if, you're, going to be able to have. A career that lasts, that that's important. To. Learn how. To work with others. There. Are some great great, musicians, who, somehow. Are. Not. Suited. To that who, may have great solo careers or. Can play chamber, music in certain situations, where they're the leader and, it's understood, and. And, and, if, you accept a position. Or, an, opportunity to play in a concert, with somebody who is clearly an. Alpha. Leader in, a chamber ensemble, that you know that that's what you're getting into so. It's it's it's always. Wise to, understand. What, kind. Of situation. You're agreeing to be in, rather. Than go into it and. Find. Out later. And react. Poorly. To that situation. In. Other words I'm not going to tell you about this fight or that might have happened 20, years ago. And. It isn't being productive. And. Is there any other, advice, you have for, trying, to secure a future opportunity with, someone you're working with like, in a car yeah. Come prepared. There's. Nothing, that's more annoying to, a. Chamber. Musician, than. To have a really, gifted player, come to rehearsal and not know their part. We. Talked about having. Lots and lots of rehearsals, for concerts, and how, that is, what's going to make it great. But. It's far. More important, that everybody, who comes to the first rehearsal. Has. Looked, at the score has, studied. It and, hopefully. Exposed. Themselves into different interpretations. Of a work and. Really. Learned their part before. The first rehearsal of course. In. With new music that's, impossible and. Some. Of the most. Stressful, situations. That I've been in have, been in world, premieres. Where. Where. The music, has not been delivered in a timely fashion. And. We. Have this distrust. Between performers. And composers. Composers. Out, there I love. You but. Please. Try to get the piece done in time for us to prepare it to. Do the best service for you. What. Is your experience in commissioning, new works because I know you know you have, quite a wide repertoire. That you work with but you do Commission, works from today's composers, so tell. Us some of your favorite experiences. There, well. After saying what I just said. You. Know with so many composers, it's, really, worth it it's. Really worth it no matter how stressful it is but I did, a tour. About. 15 years ago with Wynton, Marsalis where, we did. Stravinsky's. Soldiers tale and a, companion piece that, that Wynton, wrote and. He's a busy guy he's been busy for a long time yet, he wrote this hour long theater. Piece to, go with Stravinsky's. Soldier's, tale, and. He. Was still writing on the road and, there were we.
We'd Play one night and then. The. Next day. He. Would hand out some. Seeds and say that, this movement is different tonight, but. That really kept you on your toes and of course, when. When. A performer it. Excuse. Me when a composer is that high. A level performer. - you want to take. It seriously, I think I've had similar experiences, with Edgar Meyer the bass player composer, and. Some. Other wonderful composers. It's it's it's, interesting how there are composers, who seem, to hand you the score the, day after you commissioned, a work and, others, who, hand. It to you the day after the first performance, the next division and. Everyone. Has their own working. Rhythms. And it. Really is not a reflection on, whether, a composer, is. Is. Good or not a, good composer. But. It does impact how, secure. Performer. Is with with. Preparing, the the, performance, I've. Been really. Lucky. To be in a position. Many. Many times - to. Allocate, resources to, composers. To write new. Music not just for the clarinet, but for the the chamber. Music organizations. That I worked with early. On I. Wanted. To expand. The repertoire for, clarinet, and orchestra. We. Have a wonderful repertoire. But it's not enormous. Compared. To the, violin or the piano. It's minuscule with. A few masterpieces. So, is. It. Inspired. By. People. In the 20th century and the most notably, benny goodman who. Commissioned, all the major composers. Of his, day to. Write music for the clarinet, and some. Great concertos, notably, the Copeland. Hindemith. Concerto. Which he wrote mostly. While Hindemith was was, here at yale and which, i think was a big part of why. Benny Goodman, had. A relationship, with Yale and donated, this his papers, to this University. It's. An inspiration, to those of us who have, opportunities, to perform to, try to expand, the repertoire. And. So I. Was. Blessed, with having some really good advisors, and. The. Managers, at, IMG, artists. More. Than 20 years ago who, steered. Me in the direction of places, where you could apply for grant, funding, to. Commission works when. When I received. A chunk. Of cash. From the, Avery Fisher. Career. Grant was the first one I got I put, it towards commissioning, music. For the clarinet so. I've had those opportunities and, through chamber music Northwest, in. Portland we. Have been commissioning. A. Few. New, works every year. Sam. Mentioned the audience out there which is and the supporters, are very much an, enlightened, group who believe in. Music. As a as a, living. Breathing organism and, have made funds, available, to to. Commission new works and. So. It's, a big. Responsibility to. To. Be the person who decides which. Composer. Is. Going. To be the next one commissioned, and. It's. It's, really. Quite an adventure. So. You mentioned Yale a few times tell us about your experience, of teaching at Yale since you've had the experience of being on a number, of under faculties, what's, special about you, well. While the subjective. Composers. Is. Still fresh I say. That, Yale. Is an extraordinary, place. From, so many aspects. That. That I, don't, know. Of another school. In the world that has the the strength, and. The depth in, the composition, department that this school has with, a. High. Percentage, of composers. Whose works are performed, by major artists, and town samples, winning. All. The major. Prizes, the people at surprises, and the, the. Ives awards, and the American Academy it's, just extraordinary, what, a depth of of. Talent. We have at this institution, I came. To teach here in, 1987. And. I, left another, great. Institution. And. Taught. At other, universities. And musical, schools before that but I've never had an, experience. That. Comes close to, the experience I have it Yale and there. Are a few, reasons. For that. One. Is that the, commitment, that, that. We, have to excellence the others the resources, that the university has and. The. Extraordinary, development. About, a decade, ago of. Being. Able to recruit students, who don't have to pay tuition. But. Probably the most important. Thing. Is the size and proportion, at least in my view that. The. Fact that it's a graduate school and that, we have six. Clarinetists. That. Have. Really. Learned how to play their instrument, before they come and. Have. Demonstrated. You. Know a commitment, and an ability to. Enter. The profession it gives us the opportunity as a graduate, school in performance. To. Work on repertoire, to work on refinement. And, to. Work on. Establishing. The the the, groundwork, for, beginning. A career as a professional performer. When. I taught at schools where there were 45. Clarinetists, in the school I couldn't. Find you, I could really relate to how, many of them felt because I always. Wanted when I was a young. Musician, I wanted to play and, it's. Hard to find opportunities, for so. Many students. And even. Harder for them to prepare, for. What is a very competitive, life, and music. Minoo. The, proportions, are wonderful, like this auditorium, that we're in I love this hall all of the size of the stage and and.
There's. 6, to 700, seats. In the hall I might be off by a few and. And. You. Could almost reach out and touch everyone and and. The. The. School of the Music School you. Get to know. Almost. Everybody in the school and everybody, is is. Working. Towards. Some. Kind of community, in. Music, it's. It's a great experience. And. And of course your artistic, director, of the chamber music series here, as well as the Yale in New York series and of course you mentioned your your. Experience. With these least webisode ah but you did that fantastic. Collaboration with the El Drama School last year which personally. I found one of the most thrilling things I've been to in a long time, well. That was one. Of the most thrilling things I've been to in a long time too, and. It's. Because, we're, in a community, with with such. Amazing. Talent. And resources and. We, were able to to. Work together with, a director. Like. Elizabeth, diamond from the Yale Drama School who directed, the. Dramatic. Part and a choreographer like, Emily Coates on the. Yale, faculty and, that we had. Robert, blocker as dean of the School of Music and James Bundy as Dean of the School, of Drama agreeing, to work together and, pool our resources. It, was an extraordinary, thing we planned, it for almost, two years. Liz. Is is, fluent, in French and and, took it upon herself to make a new translation. An updated, translation, of Ramos, original. Libretto for, the, for. The the. Play and. It, really is a dramatic work. It's a dance work and and. It's a musical work, that that. Was born, because. Of political, and social upheaval. In Europe and. We. Were able to recreate, that. This. Theatre, company, that. Was only, able to happen. Because we could all work together across, disciplines. Here on campus that's. Difficult of course it happens. That. That's one of the most often performed. Works. Of its kind throughout. The world but, this is really special, we started, we started rehearsing. In January, for performance, in April. You. Know for those of us in the, profession who. Will. Have. A concerto, appearance, with an orchestra and I'll get there the day before and, really, lucky to have two rehearsals or. Or. Even at Lincoln. Center when, we play chamber music we. Try to have lots and lots of rehearsal, but usually. Four, days ahead of time will. Have full days of rehearsal for, four. Days and then play, a performance. But. Being here at Yale with, really, professional, level students and a couple of faculty members and. Alums. Performing. In this, and working. Really. Working, and watching how, how. Actors, and and, theater, directors, and producers work. To. Make the the totality, of this and and seeing a choreographer. Like Emily Coates teaching. Actors how to move and dance, over, this extended, period of rehearsal, time was an experience, that you. Don't usually have outside of this, kind of a community. It. Seems like your career path has led you to be in a place that, allows you to do exactly what you want to do when. You want to do it not. Just here at Yale but also in the different music. Festivals that you are direct. I'm, just wondering. So. So much of your career has this cascading, effect where one thing led to another I'm. Just wondering could can you pinpoint a specific time, or opportunity that, sort of got the Domino's falling or. Several, key. Moments. Early in your career. You. Really, never know what's around.
Each. Corner and. You. I, wish, I had that kind of. Vision. Where I could tell that this is going to lead to that in in, in, retrospect. I. Think. That. Going. Starting. That little, festival. At Michigan, and then having the opportunity to perform in Portland, and then. Being. Given the opportunity. To to. Make the programs, for this festival. And see, it grow it. Was just lucky for. Me that that was everything, was just right it lined up very. Well it, was at a time when the the. City of Portland was growing, and the. Cultural, life was was. Increasing. And the festival's. Role. In that community was growing as I, was learning my my. My trade and it's. Something that has meant a great, deal to me artistically and then, coming to Yale and. Having. This as my, home. Base professionally. Has. Just. Allowed, me. As a as a musician and, as a teacher to, to. Sustain and, grow, you. Mentioned Avery Fisher and I know you've want some other competitions, how did that factor into your career. How, did it give you opportunities, or. Awards. And, competition. Prizes, are really, great. To have. But. I find that this kind of a limited. Shelf life, you. Know, I was. Really. Really. Happy, about winning. Every. Audition. That I have won. And tried to forget about the ones that I didn't win. And. I learned from, having. Some success that. That. One thing leads to one thing and, then. Maybe another and, and. You have to look. Beyond that I've. Seen. Colleagues. Who will win a prize and have, a tremendous, boost, to, their activity, for a limited, period of time and then when. That, expires. Unless. They've. Kind. Of linked that to other, opportunities or broadened, the horizon. The, the danger is that it that it, has. A trajectory, and, then it's over, joe. Silverstein. The former. Concert master the Boston Symphony great, violinist, conductor. Was. One of the violinists. That that I worked with for many years at Lincoln, Center and it. Was kind of a mentor to me I met him in it as when, I was a student at. The Music Festival in Sarasota, Florida which. Still. Is very I think he still goes there every year, and. And. You know Joe had this this, description, of the trajectory. Of a performers. Career in classical, music, he, said there's the, rising star and. The. Living legend, and. In between is the valley of despair. And. I think the rising star is always. Well. Advised, to. Think. How they're how, they're going to deal. With their lives when they land back on earth. Do. You have any advice to, young. Musicians might want to start music festivals. Do you feel like there's any sort of audience or demographic that needs to be reached it's just it's, it's, not rocket science it's just a lot of work. You. Know in the in, the libretto, for. The soldiers tale. There. Is a line that. That. Joe. The soldier. Recites. When. He's parlaying. All this success. From, this magic book that tells him how to. Achieve. Untold. Riches and. Wealth he, said well then I became a businessman and it. Was easy I just found, out what people want wanted. And I sold it to them so it's something like that, but you. Do have to think, about. What's important, what, you want to contribute and then. Find out or. Where. You, can do it find a venue find. Out people who are like-minded. And, want to help you and join you and.
Then. You have to do it. Many. Successful. Series. Have started, in churches. And, schools. I'm. Sure, that an ensemble. That we all just. Think just exists, on the radio and on CD. Covers, like the Academy of st. martin-in-the-fields. Has. Just always been there on the radio but I think, it was a bunch of musicians getting together in a church in London and playing. Some chamber music and. Larger. Chamber. Orchestra type, type, things. Things. Get started that way. Occasionally. They'll be, you. Know a few. Philanthropists. Who, start something. Like Lincoln, Center and decide that there should be a component. And. Make. Available all, of the the necessary resources. To, a group of musicians and, just you, have this great gift but. And. As, I said earlier chamber music is, portable. And flexible, and. You. Can do it in your living room invite. A few friends over and, now. You have, Kickstarter. And, all, of these other opportunities. On the Internet to to raise funds for things that are meaningful to you, that. That. Are. Only limited, by your, energy. And, imagination. Do. You see chamber music playing a larger part and a future of classical musician, a larger. Part well. I. Mean. With the state of orchestras. Well, I think that that's been a trend for for many years. Many. Centuries, actually, so. Many composers, have, written their, most, profound, works for chamber ensembles, at least, partially. Because there's, the most control, over a small group you know a composer. Will, look. We just had a performance here the other night of Mahler second, symphony which. Is spectacular. And visceral, and wonderful. But. Most. Composers. Might. Have, a difficult time getting, a. Performance, of a work for a hundred people. Like, them so. But composers, have written so. Much great music for small groups and. Accordingly. The. Resources, to produce, these, masterpieces, from centuries. Are. Manageable. You. Can put on a concert of, Brahms. Sonatas, or Bach. Concerto. In. A living room or a small, church. Or a classroom. And. The. Economics. Of it and the. Production. Values, are. Within. Reach. So. That. So, that. Chamber. Music has. Always been an important, part of of musical. Lives and, I, think always will be and. I think that that groups, like the Chamber Music Society, festivals. Like chamber music Northwest, in Portland the, Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival. Music at Menlo the.
Marlboro Festival, on Vermont, have. Borne, this out in the last. Generation. That. The. Highest quality, of. Music. The, most compelling, music, with with the, top. Performers. Performing. It is available. At in a smaller scale. At. A time that sometimes. Orchestras. Are having difficulty, making their payrolls, and and. In. Paying. Their bills and. Chamber. Music, can. Survive that. Well. You've programmed, for. So many different, festivals, and so many different types of audiences, what, do you see as what, today's audiences, are looking for. It's. Hard to generalize what. Audiences, are looking for. But. The. The. Most. Common. Trend. Is, that people are looking, for. What's familiar to, them people, will buy tickets for things they've heard on the radio or heard. When they were growing up there's. And, there's. Usually reason, that a war horse is a war horse that. And, that's usually. Used in a derogatory. Way. But. So. Many of the works that have endured and that people buy tickets to, here. Are. Are. There. Because, they're great and, I. Have, found in programming, that when, you, program. A. Great, work of Schubert and Brahms or, Mozart or, Bach that. More. People will buy tickets than when you program, spore. And, homel. And. EBooks. To Pewter. There's. Some amazing, music, that. People, are, afraid of because, they don't know the name so. Those of us who are making programs. Take. The responsibility. To give people what they're familiar with what they're comfortable with but. To challenge them and give them something new. Even. When that something new is something old. It. It. Was. Revelatory. Last summer the violinist, Daniel Phillips. Did. A whole group of. Violin. Sonatas, pre. Bach by the composer, Heinrich. Bieber. Not. To be confused with any other. And. These were just revolutionary. Extraordinary. Pieces that people, hadn't heard before there, was. He. Well. One of the things that as someone, who programs, concerts, gets. To experiences. Having, great musicians, with a vast. Depth. Of experience bring. Ideas and repertoire. Ideas. To me and so so Danny, Phelps told me about these sonatas, and we programmed. That. Music. And people. Went nuts to, hear something that would just grab, them and was so exciting, that they'd never heard before that's been around for centuries and, what, about it the other end of the spectrum what do you think about new music and programming, that are introducing, audiences, to. The future of music if you will. Well. That, that is a responsibility. That, that. Is very, very. Profound and that I always. Try. To share with colleagues that I trust, and. There. Are there is a segment of the audience that only, wants to hear new new, things and some. Of them are very very demonstrative. Both. With their. Attendance. And new music concerts, and and. With. Their philanthropy, there, are there are people who understand, that it's, not the most popular. Position. To take and have. The resources to help and, I've been really. Honored to know some of the people who will. Fund. Commissions, and. Who believe. That that's an important, aspect. Of. Classical. Music and. Introducing. Those works to, a larger, audience who, might. Be afraid of it as is, is a challenge, and when it succeeds. It's. It's, very gratifying I, think. People are realizing. That there's. No such thing as as. As. A. Characterization. Of new. Music, there. Are so many different, styles everything, that's written in 2014. Is. Influenced. By, everything. That's come before it and one, composer, may be influenced. By completely. Different set. Of. Aesthetics. Than, another so. Musician. Excuse, me audience members who may have heard a work that was written two years ago say. I don't like new music because I didn't like that piece is. Like one, of my kids.
Eating. Eating, a green bean saying I don't like vegetables. It's. Not it yeah you know because. That's. Not all there is. Well, that's it's an interesting child and try it again maybe next time you'll like it exactly. Why do we lose communication. Absolutely. I'm, gonna pause now and see if any of you and the audience have some questions, and if you do we, have a microphone up here and I invite you to come up and ask your, question. Don't. Be shy okay great, this. Is about midnight. Okay. Walk. Up. Hello. Thanks, for being here can you hear me okay okay good. My question is is, in, today's world, today's. Music world how, do you go about finding. Presenters, reaching. Out to presenters that will put you put. Your chamber ensemble, on their, schedules, and the. Second part of my question is. What. Role do you think. Hiring. Management, for chamber ensembles, plays, in today's music world I think Tim Garland's group. They. Hired. Management, and they seem to be doing very well, so. I just wondering any, ideas about them. That's. A very good and very specific. Question. I. Think. You have to a. Chamber. Ensemble, that serious has to prove to, itself. That, it's serious and, commit. To, some. Kind of a. Period. Of time where, where, you. Might be in the desert for a while, because. There's that there's a definite. Time. Lag between. An. Initiative. And and. Reaping. Any kind of results. I. Think. That in that you mentioned Tim Gatlin, and the Acropolis, quintet. They've. Been working together for, quite a few years and they've made this commitment where even though Tim is living here and some of them are living in Michigan they they, fly to wherever they need to be to rehearse and they, prepare, and go to competitions. That's how I know about about. Them and. Incidentally. Having engaged that group for, the festival in Portland, for this coming summer so, is an interesting example that, you brought up with. Tim and that quintet, and. I. Heard. Them as. Contestants. In a, in. A competition, in Missouri the ploughman competition. At, the University, of Missouri, about. Three years ago and, it's taken that long until I was able to organize. The. Opportunity. To invite them to play at this festival in Portland that that much lead-time three. Years in, the meantime they've kept themselves busy they, won a few other competitions. They've. Organized. They've gotten themselves a management. But. While. You're waiting for those opportunities and, preparing, for those contests. Those, are the times I think to rehearse, to prepare, to. Learn. How to work with one another to. Collaborate. To learn that discourse. That, that protocol for, for. Working well, with one another and, being. Collaborative. While. Bringing your best. Attributes. To the group and, finding. Opportunities, and creating, opportunities. In. Living. Rooms and churches, and, classrooms.
And, Performing. And and, building, your repertoire, and, having. A commitment. That that is. Going. To be. Over. Several. Years before, you can even begin. To to. Judge. Whether you have succeeded or, not. As. Far as managers, are concerned, it's. A difficult time there's, a tremendous, amount of competition, some, of the same. Things. That make it easier, to self, promote and self produce. Also. Make. The field more crowded because those opportunities, are available to. Everyone so, I think some of the same. Qualities. And attributes. That. That. Were. Applicable. Before. The internet, and before, it. Became. So. Much less. Expensive. To, get, your work known on YouTube, and everywhere and and, everywhere. Else some. Of the same. Qualities. Of, commitment. And, patience. And. Being. Able to persevere, and, be resilient, when. Things. Don't go the way you, want them to, are. Just as much in. In. Effect now, the. The, question of whether to hire a manager, or not, it. Depends entirely on the manager and, and. And what the working relationship. Is, there. Are some great managers, out there who. Who. Really are committed to, discovering. Talent. And and, bringing them. To. The public there are also. Groups. That manage themselves very, successfully. And. It. Takes a lot of work. I know, that. If. You heard the Opus one piano, quartet, its. I'tikaf, Ophion, Steve. Antenna mum and Marie MacDermott and Peter Wiley, you. Have former, member of tashi a former, member of the Mozart, quartet, and the and the coronary. Quartet, have come together making, piano quartet, and at. That point, when they formed. They. Had played it virtually, every. Major. One. Of them at least had played for every major chamber, music presenter, in the country and probably. In the world between. All of those groups and. They decided, that they were gonna just manage, themselves and. They. Have a lot of success with a limited amount of availability. Because they're all so busy but. I think after about 10, years of doing that Ida. Cavafy and who was doing most of the emails and phone calls. Might. Have gotten a little tired of it but. I think she's still doing it and. You. Know if you meet enough people, who. Know your work and, believe in what you're doing then you. Don't need somebody to sell it for you but, you do need to, be able to get your programs. Out and time and arranger travel, and you. Know many groups do that for. Themselves and, post, your your. Information, your biography, and your history and your high-resolution. Photos on the internet so. Again. Whether, to have a manager or not really depends on the manager if, you can win a competition, like. Young. Concert, artists, or concert, artists is guild where, management comes with the deal it's. Great, and. Those. Are those, are two organizations, that are tremendously committed and and, really. Do wonders, for the groups that that. Win their their. Prize which comes with management I was. Talking about prizes earlier, too and the trajectory, and the shelf life when. You have an organization like that that, follows up. With performances. And management, then that is really, really, valuable. More. Than then, you. Know a plaque. And. A cheque which. Literally. Shelf, life for, the flag at. The end and. Limit. On how much you can spend, the same cheque. Okay thank you for answering that question because I get that question all the time so I'm glad to do a professional. Performer. Give, you the advice from. The real inside, who else anybody. Else, do. We have time for another couple, of audience questions, if, somebody. Has something. So. What would be your advice to today's. Yale, School of Music students on how to create success, for themselves, going, forward.
Listen. To you teacher. Be. Prepared, practice. Allow. Yourself the, opportunity. To fail, because. You don't. Have to win every audition, you. Just have to win a few. And. Patience. And. The. The the cliche, of luck. Being the intersection of of. Opportunity. And preparation, is, has. Never been more true than it is now and and. You. Have to stay prepared you have to. Increase. Your opportunities. By. Increasing. Your, openness, to different types of opportunities, for those. Of us who. Decide. To that, they want to be in, an orchestra. Say. Okay well, I only want, to play. First. Clarinet, I'm. A first clarinetist, and I'm not even good audition, for a second clarinet or bass clarinet to reflect clear that. To me that's limiting. Unless y