Metal Vs Carbon: Which Bikes Are Better? | GCN Tech Show Ep. 3

Metal Vs Carbon: Which Bikes Are Better? | GCN Tech Show Ep. 3

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This. Is s100 at the Tour Down Under. And. I'm gonna be bringing you the latest and greatest tech, that. These guys are using God, guys and, of. Course having already got an amazing, tan, I've stayed back here and our beloved maintenance, set where I will be bringing you this week's big, debate, metal. Versus, carbon and of course the second, induction, into the gcn tech wall of fame with little cameo and, captain retro. What's. Hot in tech this week well for a start my body is absolutely scorching, yet, sadly though that is not tech far, from it I would just actually like to thank though on that note the people of Adelaide, for making us feel so welcome, here. At the Tour Down Under, your comments, on how much you love GCN and everything we do is just been absolutely outstanding and, I'd really like to thank you all for coming up to us and telling us now time to raise the temperature just a little bit more as if I need to how about these digital. Soul heated, insoles spotted recently, at the Consumer, Electronics, Show in Las Vegas now the temperature range on these insoles is actually between thirty and forty five degrees centigrade, and it's controlled through an app on your phone they. Also track, where you've been now presumably that's also through the app and not through a GPS, unit inside, of the inner sole as that, would be a little bit overkill, I think now to charge up the insoles it's simply a USB, cable and the battery life is between two to six hours depending. On your desired, output of, temperature. Weight-wise, are coming it between 120. And 160, grams, and finally, price is $199. I think, I'd probably pay that actually so I wouldn't get cold feet during the winter now I wonder if I can get a pair in time for my arrival back at GCHQ. One, thing's for certain though, I do not need them right now in fact I need ice, cold insoles, now. Cask together with Team Sky have been working very closely together to bring you this this is the brand new utopia helmet, which we just saw launched a couple of days ago now the purpose of it is to have an aero helmet, which is suitable for use even in hot weather conditions, and believe, me the squad of Team Sky they've been using it down here at the Tour Down Under and the temperature has been reaching up to 40 degrees centigrade now, that is hot now according, to tests by cask it actually saves six Watts over its nearest rival at 50 K an hour that's, you, know quite considerable mate really isn't it now the weight of it is 235. Grams in a size medium and there's nine ventilation, ports on there now, I'm gonna have some more tech few later on in the show so stay tuned cheers, for that tech roundup John I'm not gonna lie the temperature, in Adelaide it does sound bloody lovely right now although not, entirely sure that sunburn is a stronger. But anyway, while you have been stalking professional. Cyclists I haven't had a great fun going through the comments that we - this week Hot Topic metal.

Versus. Carbon, now as we suspected, there are some very strong, opinions out including this, one from Dave Ross death. To, all but metal. And. Then some, still emphatic but, it's slightly mellow comments, like this one it from bundles, who said I dearly love my old aluminium, trek 1000, but, I hopped on my first, carbon, bike last week and as soon as I touch the pedals it took off like a snake, had bitten it, it's, heaps of fun, you know I know that feeling totally. So. I think, we should probably start with, some, facts okay if, you, want the lightest, the, stiffest, and the most aerodynamic bike, you. Will have to have one that is made out. Of carbon fiber I'm. Sorry but. You will let's, start with the weight penalty for, a start the lightest carbon frames are about, 350. Grams lighter than, the very lightest, aluminium, one it's titanium about, same 350, grams heavier and then, steel, is even, more that's about 700. Grams heavier and that is for the very very lightest. Ones stiffness. Yeah, metal frames can be made as stiff as carbon but the weight penalty would be even greater and then from an aerodynamics, perspective. Due, to the properties of carbon it can be sculpted into, the necessary aerodynamic, shapes to a far greater extent than, a, metal, one so. On paper. A carbon. Frame should, be, faster, than, a metal one and as. Important that is that is to some of us it, is still not, the be-all and end-all this. Reliability, for a start and as we found out when we went to the control tech factory back in autumn. Do, you think is interesting that carbon, has clearly. A greater resistance to fatigue whereas, aluminium, clearly. Has greater. Resistance, to, impact metal. Frames should theoretically, have, a higher impact strength, than, carbon. Fiber and that could come in really, useful, for if the worst happens, because let's face it your frame is probably the most expensive part of your bike and John Pernell agrees. In the comments, he says that he's got both carbon, and aluminium and, whilst, he feels his carbon bike is so much faster and more comfortable the aluminium has, had probably half a dozen crashes, including, cross. Scarily a full-on, run over by a car in which it mostly, survived, quite sure all that is but. Still runs fine and for that reason alone he feels more affinity for the workhorse, metal, and, also another comment from Pat Caballero, which I agree with in the most part though there is one thing I take exception to we'll get on to that in a moment he, said let's keep it metal for a liability I could not imagine touring, the Altiplano, on my own on a carbon, bike without fear of it going wrong agree. With that and, then he said besides with the right brands our metal tubing, you, can have the best of both worlds super reliable and super, light now. I'm not so sure about that you, say in my opinion when you're making anything, super, light you, sacrifice, an element, of its reliability, simply, because there is less material, there and that's, true of carbon, and also, metal no matter what the alloy is or what its properties, there, is just less of it and of course a lot relies on the, design and engineering, of it and, actually as well it's worth remembering that carbon, frames can be repaired, maybe, not in the ability now to planner granted, but, modern, steels or many of them anyway cannot, be repaired and neither can, early minium no matter where you are but.

This Whole robustness, reliability, thing does, hide, a really important point I think and that is that metal bikes can feel really. Robust, feel, really, reliable - right and I think that's part of the reason why I love, my aluminium, cyclocross bike so much and also my, steel road bike what, about price though that really matters. And I think it's here you, get the real feather in the cap metal. Bite they, are much less expensive again, a gross generalization but, if you're looking at a top-end, metal. Bike frame off the shelf you'd, be looking at about, $1,000, perhaps whereas, and, off-the-shelf carbon frame would be like $2,000. And upwards. It actually got a great comment here from Chris Hudson who says in the 2,000, to 3,000, pound range, I reckon, metal bikes have the edge Mayson Kinesis, bowman three british brands seemed, for so much research into design unique, and interesting frames, at this price point he, then says it feels as their larger manufacturers, equivalent. Carbon frames simply inherit features. From their flagship, cousins which justifiably, but unfortunately, cost bum puckering, amounts, of money, and, it's. True carbon manufacturer, is a much more labor-intensive, process. Than. Making metal, bite it's kind of ironic really seeing as a lot of people seem to think that they still just pop out of the mold like some cheap plastic toy but, the more complicated the frame and the lighter the frame and the more labor-intensive, it, becomes, so, it is always going to be more costly and I guess and. Now lastly. Perhaps. Most importantly. Aesthetics. Oh yeah. Now, there is undeniably. A certain, look to a modern. Carbon fyke, Thomas. Soto says as much he says steel is real I prefer, steel but I love the new looks of carbon. And who's, to argue but, having said that there. Are no right or wrong to it I mean take, a look at this I dare you to disagree, that is an absolute. Stunner steel is real but. Then so. Is aluminium look, at this, an. Titanium. Life. And of course carbon, all, of them can, be absolutely amazing, arguably. Carbon, is lighter and faster as we said metal, more robust, certainly feels like it to ride but, they all scrub, up pretty, damn well at, the end of the day which is why I sit firmly on the fence just like Tyler Kurt's in fact in the comments who said his main bikes are, made out of carbon but he also has an aluminium langston. For commuting as well as all city macho, Kings and nature. Boys made out of Reynolds 85 three steel tubing, he then goes on say that he loves it carbon whites when he's really shredding on the road in the trees or on the cross course but both materials, have their purposes, and places, now, Tyler with the quiver of bikes like that you are truly a lucky, man that you also speak. Great, sense but we want to have the rest of you is well what do, you think are you a meddler. Or. Are. You a carbon. Carbona. But. Not say that anyway, let us know in the comment section down below which, side of the fence you sit on and why, or, in fact you, like Patrick, pecker arrow says that wood frames are better than either metal or carbon. Now, I actually don't know about that you have no opinion but I hope to rectify that situation in. The, coming year now do you make sure you, stay tuned as well next, week's hot topic, he's gonna be whether. Or not there is actually, a difference in high-end, frames, then of course as you just talked about come out of it bolt is there a difference between a, Civello, and a panoramic or a giant, and a, specialized. Get. Involved in the comment section. What. A fame another, thing I'm looking after whilst mr. Cannings snoops, around Australia. Now last week we inducted. Our very first, product, onto the gcn tech wall of fame a Campagnolo. Quick release and this week following, the suggestions, of our. Bastion Ben kickert, Bart, Carter, Alan Victor James cycle, and jarrod bell to, name but a few we, are going for brake, lever, mounted. Integrated. Gear, shifters, or more, commonly and conveniently, known as sti's. That's, right, Shimano total, integration, for it was the big s that, launched, this amazing, bit of tag onto, the road cycling world in 1990. With eight speed Shimano. Dura-ace. 7400. But interestingly and. This took me totally by surprise the, tech actually comes from mountain. Biking because the previous year in 1989, Shimano. Launched, rapid-fire, and with it they've brought ratchet. Mechanisms, to gear shifters, so one lever pulled, cable, and then a second, leaver released, that cable, in small. Increments, then, as I said it was the following year 1990. Where, they brought that tech into, a much-needed place over. On the road that's been lab right and tell us exactly how needed. It was we, need to hear from, Captain. Retro. Hello, mate where's. My costume sorry, mate that's.

Nice To get a guest appearance on the tech show but, now interestingly sorry, if GCN. Have been around, in 1989. I'll have blown the lid on a fantastic. Scoop of Shimano because although it's released in 1990, STI are actually used in, a prototype way in. 1989. I was riding a race called a Nissan classic in the back end of October. Of that year and I spotted very. Famous ride indeed Phil Anderson using, prototype. STI levers, and a must admit make it absolutely blew me away because at that time I wasn't, even using index, shifters, I was basically on simplex, restoration, retro shifted so it really was a proper, glimpse into the future and have blew a lot of riders away actually amazing, better it must genuinely have made a difference, to ride a speed actually like overall that convenience, of shifting. For me out of us but, I think fundamentally, for, Lance and what he said was it it worked really well but it was the ability to shift out, the saddle on climbs, that made a big difference to yeah, there we go then and actually quite. Amazingly, sti's. Didn't, really change a great deal today it took 20, years actually, for Shimano, to, get, rid of the cable that came out of the side of the shifters the only thing really was that the leaver heard ergonomics, changed I guess it, just it was a system that worked really well and when you're using the, old-fashioned, STI until about 2008, 2009, yeah that's right now Campagnolo meanwhile, followed. Suit quite soon after in there with ego power where they had got read of. The cables coming outside and also they want a lot of fans for brake levers that didn't move so she might obviously you have to move radios some, people prefer more, static, brake believer but, I think right, saying that actually by inventing, STI Shimano, kind of moved into pole position, in the road group set market it definitely was just a little bit more tactile, as well and it took quite a few years for camping and just sort of catch up and although I'd like a bit a camp AG okay again Shimano, was just that the feel of it that just that little bit different is far more tactile far more instantaneous, and I think with that system, they basically set the bar that high it was a long time before the fact other manufacturers all caught up who. Might just dropped a bombshell into the comment section so. Yeah you, know we'll, leave it there do make sure you, get involved in the comment section let me go easy on that whole Shimano can pack these but tell us what you would like to see inducted, onto, the gcn tech wall of fame for, next week we need product, number, three. Thinking about it but, I'd love to hear what you say but stop. The camera first first up I need a cape no. I, like a racing, cape. True. Can. We sort them out with a cape please. Now. Check out these hard to miss aren't they new specialized, s work shoes that we've spotted on the feet of quickstep floors riders this week of course they match up with those flashy helmets, that we also see. Information. On them it's actually quite sparse, other. Than I reckon, they'll be called yes work seven keep your eyes peeled though, and we'll reveal all at once we know for more information, so, when I saw this Bianchi, specialist, my CV from the other side of the expo I ran as fast as my flip-flops, would take me and I thought it was Marco Pantani's, double, winning bike of the Giro d'Italia and Tour de France back in 1998. Sadly. It's not but it's just a bike to commemorate, it what's. Pretty cool about it is perched on top of that seat post is a saddle sign by ill Parata himself, the. Legend Marco, Pantani. Now. I've just come across this pair of wheels whilst having a look round here these, are the zip four five four NSW's. And they're pretty unique as I'm sure you'll agree due to the Sawtooth profiling. Here on the inside of the rim which, according to studies actually make them more stable in crosswinds a pretty, important, feature once that wind starts blowing I'm sure you'll agree but, what makes this pair so special is that you actually can't buy them yep that's right they, are the tubular, version, now I've only actually seen a couple of pairs here and this. Pair are on the bike of management, of team Katyusha Allison and the other pair are on that of Nathan Haas have used the team leader for that squad here at the Tour Down Under, so who knows if we will actually see them go into general production, for the public.

So. Quickstep floors for, 2018, have made a switching, cockpit, sponsors, to Shimano's own brand Pro and it, would appear actually from looking around at some of the bikes that they've not got the full packages just yet but hey it's still early in the season and I'm pretty sure that once back in Europe all the bikes will be fully equipped with the pro range so on the bike here of Nicolas arm he's the team leader this year the Tour Down Under for team some web he's actually got the new Shimano power meter they've, actually replaced, pioneer, who were there last year sponsors, and I'll tell you what that's a very neat looking solution it's based there just in the spider and then with a sensor, on the inside, of the chainstay, I do like the look at that. Bike. Of the week time first though let's reveal last, week's, winning, bike, where we put together two bikes actually from the women's peloton and they were the bike of Canyon SRAM and that was the Kenyan ultimate, CF s LX and it was up against Trek drops and their Trek him under and with, a quite, outstanding, 77%. Of the boats the winner was and the. Winner was. The canyon ultimate, CF s LX of Canyon, SRAM now, I'd actually have that one here with me this one is tiffany Cromwell's bike which, she, very kindly loaned me and I do hope actually that, those votes, you weren't swayed by Simon Richardson's, love for that bike as, he described to us last week well. I'm, gonna go with a paint job fresh joy it's my favorite, color scheme in the world it's the canyon SRAM team, bike so this is don't let it influence you though. It's. The canyon cos. And. First, up we've got this specialised s-works venge bias disc, that. Is a mouthful, isn't it this particular model belongs to Elia Viviani of, quickstep floors obviously, we've got ourselves the aerodynamic, frame aerodynamic. Cockpit, Shimano dura-ace di2, with. Disc brakes yep. I hear the gasp from some of you already rovol, wheels a specialized, power. Meter down there as well as well, as a specialised tube saddle with carbon fiber rails so, now you've got to vote for either this and this. The factor, o2 of as you desire LeMond d out obviously, the factor o2 frameset, a black, ink handlebar. Stem and, seat post physique, Aliante carbon. Braided saddle Shimano, dura-ace di2, groupset, Mavic carbon cosmic Ultimates, down. There the ceramic, speed oversized, pulley wheel system and here. The, SRM, power crank so you not to do you need to vote up here for your favourite and next week we'll put another two heads ahead. Right. It's that time of the week it's time for the bike bolt where we wrecked your bike either nice or, super, nice now sadly I don't have my super nice horn with me this week it was taken. Away by the customs, officer of all things not to worry I begged borrowed and I stole actually, I just asked nicely and I've got this from. World Tour mechanics, here at the Tour Down Under listen. Out for that that's the sound of super, nice with, no further ado let's get started first, up Barry, Hershey, Leeds West Yorkshire, we've, got ourselves and.

Look Six. Nine five straight, away super. Nice, then. Who's, this we've got gavin truman of Swindon, in the UK as well coy Jota lent up game what looks like a, farmyard. Gate. And. They'll be at rubbish in the background though so I'm afraid Gavin, can't, really give that one super, nice sorry about that one mate next, up Ian Shepherd of Troy which he's got myself a KTM and he's got those orange bottle cages on there now those are the corporate colours of KTM, so I like what he's done he's actually done a little bit of matching there nice, one in fact super nice it's. Calling me down at least right. Now midget, class border of. Slovenia. Look at that specialised s-works that, that, is full of bling isn't it just check it out look at the gold detailing, super, nice no questions, I, need. This pull me down right. Finally, Ross Macdonald. From Messer in Arizona, in the u.s. look. At that specialized, s-works I love that paint job absolutely love it stands. Out a mile especially, with those logos so super, nice. Right. Now remember, to submit your bike from the bike bolt email. Us on the email address on screen right now and also let us know where you come from it really does help right, ah. Yeah. You're still here. So. We're, nearly at the end of the gcn tech show for this week but don't worry there is more great content coming up in the next week for you so tomorrow, sighs gonna be in the gcn tech clinic actually one of your problems Saturday. I take, a look at Triple World Road race champion Peters. Against pro bike that, is one not to be missed Sunday, we take a look at 650b, wheels on, Monday, yep, it, maintenance Monday, time and then next week we are back again with. GCN. Tech show episode, number four now, also, remember to like and share this video with your friends and do remember subscribe to the gcn tech channel by clicking on the logo on screen right now for, two more great videos, how about clicking down here because, I'm tech from the Tour Down Under and down here the size all Bayer pro bike now. I'm afraid I have to actually go myself I've got a plane to catch so all, the best and I'll see you back in the UK.

2018-01-25 08:23

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Comments:

Let us know if you think there is actually any difference between high end bikes in the comments below

To a pro or very skilled rider yes. To a hobby biker, not really, not enough to be worth the extra cash though. I'd say the cut off point is around 1000pounds.

GCN Tech The bike with the lightest tire/tube/rim combo together with very low friction hubs could be made of anything stiff and heavy and feel better than Ti with heavy and sluggish wheel hub combo. I learned how to micro polish unsealed bearings as a kid with jewelers rouge...

REMEMBER 6/4 TI HAS A LIFE TIME WARRANTY. I WAS LOOKING AT A CARBON FRAME IT HAD ONLY A 4 YEAR WARRANTY FUCK THAT.I HAD CARBON BARS AND THEY SUCKED. I WOULD ONLY BUY CARBON WHEELS AND CARBON FORK. NOW I WOULD GO BACK TO A TI FORK, TI BARS AND MAVIC METAL WHEELS WITH DISC BRAKES.

I'm curious about this too since I'm thinking of getting a first carbon frame

Yes

KESTREL IS SO 90'S

I found a great carbon bike which combines aerodynamics, stiffness, weight saving AND MONEY SAVING!!!! have a look at the Kestrel Talon Road, or the Talon X.

I HAVE A 2005 LITESPEED GHISALLO 770 GRAMS SIZE M 6.4 TI FULL FRAME. THERE IS NO CARBON FRAME 350 GRAMS LIGHTER THAN MY FRAME. THE LIGHTEST CARBON FRAME I SEEN IS 660 GRAMS SO ONLY 1/4 POUND LIGHTER. MY BIKE IS STIFF AS FUCK WITH A 31.6 SEAT TUBE. MY BIKE COMES IN  AT 14 POUNDS EVEN WITH ZIPP Z 4 WHEELS CAMPY SUPER RECORD CARBON. PLUS MY FRAME WILL LAST 4 EVER. I ONLY LIKE CARBON WHEELS.

Here's a question... recently you did a video on carbon bars and alloy bars... but from an impact and fatigue perspective what's better: 1) Alloy bar, alloy stem 2) Alloy bar, carbon stem 3) Carbon bar, alloy stem 4) carbon bar, carbon stem 5) fully integrated bar-stem combo. I'm thinking the differences in material properties would produce different stress distributions between the components?

manitoublack Colnago make the majority of their frames in Taiwan these days, it's only the very high end framesets that are still made in Italy. Also Time do not make their own Carbon, they create their own pre-preg layups & tubing. The Carbon filaments used to do it are purchased from third party vendors.

I have a slightly older high end road bike that is 50/50 Ti/Car. It's the best of both worlds.

differences is subtle. the main difference manufacture can do is only on the frame & fork and some finishing kit. other main parts can be used by all high end bikes so no much differences there.

GCN Tech I hope if you’re comparing carbon frames, there is a way of comparing the build quality of carbon frames. A $5,000 frame should be built better than a $1,000 frame

Can you please make one on brake pads for disc. So many options ... And how to tune cable disc brakes. Mine are sub par. Maybe better cables? Bigger diameter discs? Other pads? Thanks!

GCN Tech Nope, they're all out of my price range.

't think much of the tech innovation a normal cyclist would not know any difference. I think we get caught up in the manufacturer and to some extent things like GCN, Bike radar etc throw out at us. Carbon frames and things like Di2 for me just make no difference to the amateurs performance. I am fairly fit but, I see people at Sportives and races on £5 grand upwards bikes with all the latest tech and frames a sneeze would blow away and then they are pushing them up the big hills

Mine was the white with red and blue livery. 2016 release. I had an issue with the frame which meant it had to be changed (which to their credit was changed within a week) so now I am on the black and white/silver frame 2017 release which, is even more striking.I agree with you on the handling and speed. Its what I use on sportives as its a great climbing bike also. Had I realised it would be such an excellent all round bike there would have been no way I would have opted for the Defy as its not needed.I am glad however I bought when I did as I agree the prices now are stupid and what is really pertinent is that your paying top prices for lower spec. Where you once got Ultegra your now seeing 105 or less.Good luck with the shoes and fitting. My first time in road shoes I have a slight incline from my Garden out to the road and clipped in one foot went to do the other and had no power and just fell straight onto the grass. The wife was watching and I could here her laughing at me. Mind, better to get it out of the way in safety than on the open road

Not enough to matter. High end bikes should be for racers. I'm more interested in what I can afford, something between $500-$1000 Canadian dollars. Go Cervello and Devinci and Arragon 18, all originally from my home town Mtl Quebec Canada. I own a second hand Devinci millennium road bike $480. my best bike ever.

Bamboo is the best

Bamboo is real!

manitoublack Yet they all buy the material from either Toho Rayon, Mitsubishi and Toray industry in Japan.

GCN Tech can't your custom bike ride well and be fun and that's steel and it's not to heavy!

If they don't weigh a ton, then they are going to be tougher and robust!

For most Carbon out of China/Taiwan, print your frame, bring your stickers. But there is still a little 'je ne sais quoi' about the carbon frames made by Time, Colnago and a handful of others in their European workshops. Time still even manufacture their own carbon!! It's a shame that Look moved to Africa :(.

I used to have a Willier Columbus frame with the seat stays, chain stays and forks Columbus Carve Carbon it was just fantastic but it got stolen...

Nothing quite looks like a lugged steel frame. Done right, it's a work of art. In all honesty, I don't think I'm fast enough to justify a carbon frame.

I would love to see more time given to Ti bikes. Your tour of the Moots factory was a cruel tease. More please!

Jon, that’s an interesting sock game you’re throwing down today

A more interesting question is whether there is much difference between a midrange carbon frame and a very high end one? Is it something any amateur rider would notice?

Is yours red and black like mine? :) its looks great in that paint I think, also the aerodynamics are superb since the top frame flows down to the the rear derailleur. You never hear the mentioning of Giant on this channel since its not European, but yeah I agree their great bikes. Also I think that the SLR has the best handle bar position... the wings feel great when riding fast, tons of control and comfort. Yeah I met my Giant Dealer to order biking shoes and he said the same about the defy advanced pro, he said the prices in the cycling market are getting out of control. anyway thanks for sharing!

I have a fastroad SLR and they are stunning bikes. I actually prefer it to the far more expensive  defy advanced pro.

I think a combination of aluminum & carbon is great (at least for my price range) as I have had a Giant FastRoad SLR 1. I am 18 and since last summer I tacked on 3K miles on it... Its light enough to pick up with one arm and durable enough to not crack or scratch (dispute a few beatings). It has a carbon fork and aluminum frame... What is your opinion GCN? For me, I think it was a great buy, especially since it has a little of both worlds . Also I am going to my local bike dealer to get my first pair of clip-less pedals and shoes!! Hoping to Fizik R5s like you wear... wish me luck Si! :D https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/fastroad-slr-1

Does it go without saying that even the metal frame bikes have carbon forks? I assume that carbon forks are almost always better than metal.

Surely looks original clipless pedals.

Love my Suntour bar end shifters. Came original on my 1973 Schwinn World Voyager.

New subscriber and love hill climbs!!!! I am an old fart hill climber, still only 137/lbs, that was just a pacer up hills for the team with many miles in collegiate racing and some USCF. The most incredible composite metal combination by far I have ridden/owned (until now) was found in a Raleigh Gran Corsa, sadly I had to pawn it for food for ex wife. (I would have starved to keep it, or maybe I should've let her starve since she didn't even work.) It had lightweight steel top tube, down tube and of course head tube. It had a carbon rear triangle, carbon front fork. I have ridden full carbon multiple times and even owned a few aluminum bikes with carbon forks. There is an incredible melding of stiffness and dampening that I have yet to surpassed with the front thin wall steel and carbon fork and rear triangle. They key I do believe are the curved seat and chain stays made out of Carbon Fiber. And as if God, the cycling Gods and their Angels have looked down on me with blessings, I came across a Rocky Mountain Solo with Ultegra, full groupo and wheels with bladed spokes...... Curved carbon seat and chain stays plus carbon fiber fork, carbon seat stay. The perfect balance of stiffness where you need it and the comfort where you want it. Absolutely incredible. Aluminum gets too harsh. I don't know thermodynamics but there has to be something that makes steel better than butter. Looking forward to training for an upcoming hill climb in Delaware in the summer. I have not had this much fun on a bike in over 15 years. Bring back thin walled steel and Carbon Fiber! You will not be disappointed.

Check out these wooden bikes. https://renovobikes.com/pages/aerowood

Pretty smug comments from people who obviously do not have expertise in either human physiology or materials engineering. The whole premise in which his argument is based is a largely bogus question. “If you have to have the lightest, stiffest and most aerodynamic bike Carbon is the way to go. This is a bogus question because unless you are racing bicycles at the very highest level than this question simply does not apply to you. That means the vast overwhelming majority of cyclist and to gain those advantages you will be sacrificing other important qualities like ride quality, superior handling and durability. Now if your a Div 1 or 2 Europro the comments made are valid. If you are not they are pretty much meaningless and probably driven by an agenda to sell the latest high tech carbon bike to someone who may not need it. The truth is excellent bikes can be made from metal and carbon. You’re choice are limited by your personal preferences, the engineering compromises you’re willing to accept and your budget. Now that my racing days are over I wouldn’t trade my custom steel bike for the best carbon bike on the market unless someone else is paying for it.

Wall of Fame: Clipless Pedals, first by Look ? Then Time ?

I love the look and feel of steel frames, as a bigger rider the weight of my bike isn't something I worry about. I especially like the new 520 and 525 Reynolds tubing, a great mix of strength and comfort which both my moulton tsr and my kona paddy wagon 3 are made out of and I do use for tt'ing on, I have old 653 lo pro which although is light in comparison also doesn't feel as strong. I have a couple of aluminium charges, a plug fixie I tt on too & grater I use for commutes, both are lighter than the steel and feel stiff but they don't handle in quite the same way as my steel frames. I have a couple of other steels bikes too, mainly cheaper ones which are heavy but solid and reliable for commuting with bags, panniers etc on em

If metal is so good, why do they always have a carbon fork?

I have some pretty retro bikes made from Steel ( v early MTB) aluminium Klien Mantra ....i know, a required taste ! Titanium...MTB hardtail Litespeed frame built up around 17 years ago...multiple crashes, tens of thousands of trail & road miles on the original drivetrain..just! And finally an aluminium Cube road bike, first one in years for me & still going strong after 3 years & probably only 10k miles. They all have their uses & strong points but i think the Titanium hardtail will probably still be going long after i am...keep on keeping on !

Wall of fame. The cassette freehub mechanism instead of the freewheel.

l have both steel and carbon bikes ,l love em both .l like how my carbon snaps to life when l take off for sprint and my steels comfortable ride ,you d think after riding my carbon l d ditch my steel but quite the contrary l enjoy my steel old school even more because it surprises me how smooth it is compared to much newer carbon !! BTW 84 miyata vs 2000 trek both are awesome still !! NOW for the record l really want to try an aero time trial bike to see how much faster they really are . MY dream bike would be Ti with carbon forks and modern groupset :)

Carbon VS Metal: I am 6'4" (193cm) tall. I raced on an Italian steel road bike and a very stiff aluminum track bike in the early to mid 90s. My biggest shock moving onto Carbon about 9 years ago was that the frame was very stiff torsionaly, however at the same time it absorbed a huge amount of road vibration. Maybe its more apparent with the larger frames but all the Metal bikes I've tried forced you to chose from out of saddle pedaling efficiency or comfort, but you could not have both. Where as the black magic that is carbon fiber allows for an amazing control over stiffness and compliance.

John, Pro Tip: Lose the white shoes mate!

hang on, so I can't wear slides or white shoes... what can I wear?!

I have 50 year old steel Raleigh 3 speed a Trek carbon road bike and a Norco Aluminum cyclocross bike . I ride them all regularly, and they all do everything I ask of them. I was younger and faster I might have a preference but I am quite happy with all my bikes the way they are.

Wall of fame: modolo morphos shifters. A great example of what doesn't work.

I know that carbon is impressive but my steel bike fits me perfectly. And after a loooong day in the saddle, I'm not crabby and crinkly like so many of my compatriots.

"Modern steels and aluminium cannot be be repaired" ???????? They've been welding steel and aluminium a lot longer than they've been making CF bikes.

I feel like you left titanium out from the metal talk... but as the cost of titanium frames can rivals carbon might be a preference for most to lean carbon at that price point? I opted for Titanium for my latest bike, as was worried about the durability of carbon with the quality of the roads here.

Wall of fame: clipless pedals or the First rear gear changer from Campy

I've just had to replace my chain after just 500 miles, I keep the chain clean and well lubed, so I can't understand how it worn out so quick. Does cadence come into play, or type of lube? Most people claim to get a couple of thousand miles out of a chain. Thanks

Hydroformed aluminum frame. Carbon fork.

thanks for the Carbon vs Metal discussion. but I think you forgot to address two very important issues on the matter. your answers were all from a consumptionist's point of view, not a responsible citizee. as cyclists we need to be responsible to, first, the environment, and second, the socio-economic stability. so here are my qouestions: (1) which one is more environment-friendly. in terms of carbon footprint. I mean producing a metal bicycle releases more carbon in the nature or the production of a carbon one? (2) which one brings a fair deal to the labourers? in terms of economic relations, countries of production and workplace safety for those involving in the production.

Wall of Fame. You jump from quick release, straight to STI. What happened to the derailleur? STI would be useless without it.

Mesa, AZ is pronounced "May-sa"

WoF Clipless pedals

After a lot of testing aluminium ánd carbon bikes i recently bought myself a CAAD12, replaced wheels, stem, steerer and the saddle and ended up with a bike just over 8kg's wich does great in the now cold, wet & windy polders here in The Netherlands and i think will do fine (do hope so) on the Belgian bergs and hills. Given my budget i'm glad i spend it on a high end aluminium frame with good components rather then a mediocre equipped carbon one. Should i win the lottery i'd probably have my eye out for a SuperSix Evo High Mod, Argon 18 or Factor but i love this aluminium racer to pieces!

Dan needs to teach John you drink the whole glass...

Wow. Can't believe they talked about carbon vs. metal without mentioning the hottest aluminum frame which just changed the entire game.

lol who would thumbs down this? Die hard Steelies is my guess.

well after watching that Aussie chappie who repairs carbon frames for a living ( cant remember his youtube name ) I wouldn't touch a carbon frame with a barge pole , he cuts the write off frames up and shows you how really badly they are manufactured , delamination and torn off inflation bags still left inside the frames ect , he shows you some very high end bikes too , i'll stick with alloy because I know what i'm getting thank you very much ;) , on the outside they look great , the inside is another matter though

Love that Pantani special bike

Campagnolo lost the race as soon as they stopped doing MTB equipment in my opinion. People weren't going to use campag on the road and not on their MTBs. As well as that though campag doesn't work as well and is very finicky

That last bike! where do I find out more?

What about metal being more comfortable? Surely the biggest reason for buying a steel frame.

wood frames… sound splintery

Bike vault - all carbon??? thumbs down!!!

Great show! As for the Hall of Fame, Shimano really established itself in the market with SIS. Index shifting was a huge step forward in shipping. Shimanos biggest advantage was compatibility. Before that time, friction shifters made most component groups interchangeable with one another. You could have your gearing setup in any combination between the component manufacturers. SIS changed that... or so the claim was. Shimano told manufacturers and dealers that SIS would only work with Shimano derailleurs, so now they were proprietary. That SIS single handedly shifted Shimano to dominance in component groups; STI sealed their position. Remember, when STI came out, Campy were still years behind SIS- they were still using friction shifters. I hope this tidbit of info is helpful. Next, Hall of Fame should be Look clipless pedals.

Wall of fame: The wheel.

Hall of fame, clipless pedals!!!

Bloody loving the Tech show at the moment. best you tube show for me. materials wise Im a bike geek and an engineering geek. Id happily have a steel, version, a Ti version, an ally version and then a Carbon version of each of my bikes if cash was no object. I just love bikes. Kind of feels like I'm in the right place here.

I cycled metal for thirty years. Bought a carbon frame 5 years ago and I will never go back. So much easier on the climbs, lighter and stiffer. It's just more practical for the rides I do.

Hall of fame: cycling computers, hr band, powemeter

As an "experienced" (read older) cyclist, I am not, these days in the mode to rip out a sprint to take a crit win or flit up a major col for a strava KOA every weekend, but I revel in the joy of a long ride with my mates pipping them for my share of county line sprints or a solo randonnee across Europe. My primary bike is a Ti Litespeed Tuscany. The Tuscany is a great all-rounder with great ride characteristics and wonderful looks. My plan is to hand this wonderful bike to my son one day many years from now. Would I love to also have a carbon climbing rig in my quiver, oh yea, but I would not give up my beloved Tuscany, not a chance. Tom Cason

I remember when I was bike racing in college in the 1991 - 1992 timeframe and during one race it was discovered that ONE racer in the bunch had these new STI shifters. I still remember that the whole race group slowed down to a near crawl and everyone had to Ooo and Ah over these new cool pieces of tech.

I think your price point of $2000 for a carbon frame is not accurate. I can go the Nashbar.com web site where their carbon road frame set with fork, bottom bracket, and headset is $599.99 all day long. Plus it has internal cable routing and is DI2 / EPS compatible. I have one of these that I have built a bike out of with a Shimano 6870 DI2 groupset and it is quite a nice frameset.

steel with campy groupset and carbon wheels

OK either metal or carbon, does riding your bike in a stationary trainer, especially standing, cause damage to the rear triangle due to the twisting/torque placed on the bike while held rigidly vertical?

5:50 just find some reynolds 953 tubing. its basically armor. wall can be super thin while the tube itself is super strong so it can be very light. build your bike frame with 953 tubing then you get a bike frame that is very light, very strong and will out last you and your son.

Don't forget the Specialized Allez Sprint is stiffer than the tarmac albeit heavier. It's cheap and responsive for crit racing while being as aero as the first gen venge! Oh yeah it's aluminum.

I have carbon, aluminum and steel. I like them all. They each have their purpose. They also make the n+1 so much easier.

Nice work Guru Jon!

There is NO wrong way to go when selecting a bike. All materials are great and you can use them for all things. At this point of age, engineering is superb so you can experience great rides from any bike material.

J Dub; Maybe the best all around bike ever- My Dogma FPX; mag+carbon!

Hall of fame -Mavic ssc rims

Have ridden,steel,carbon,and ali,for me i like the ride of carbon,i find ali too stiff,i still have three steel bike frames and a moulton made out of steel,very good ride too,but heavier than carbon bike's.

I need a bike to be super strong and super safe, so my frame material preference is metal and I happily ride heavy metal pretty much every day. But I would welcome an exotic carbon bike into the quiver if I had the money, but I would use it only for races and events. And I suppose I grew up understanding the difference between racing and daily driving. My Dad was involved with auto racing as a engine builder for a few years of my childhood--and that was really cool for me to see--and I learned early that those cool cars were hauled to the tracks on trailers, not driven on the street. And I observed, too, that the guys building those race cars didn't drive, for the most part, anything special to work. They got their kicks at the track, not on the street, and that's just how they rolled. But some even drove beat-up pick-up trucks and I was disappointed to see that, bewildered. It was like they weren't even trying to be cool. But surely I grin--everyone can drive whatever they want and we can ride whatever we want and how fortunate we are in this golden age of frames and materials and designs and even paint jobs. And maybe one of these days I'll ride a carbon bike in colors inspired by Lasty. And I'll be sure to tell you about it.

For the Hall of Fame, the next item has to be the Look clipless pedals.  Watching the Tour, and seeing the La Vie Claire (sp?) team riding the new devices, had us all debating whether this was a good thing (I was riding wood sole Dettos!), until the first pairs were available, and starting arriving with the salesmen, then the problem of quickly finding the proper shoes! Regarding the debate over Metal vs Carbon, I always loved the ride of my metal bike.  One day, in the 80's, out on a long solo ride in western Ct. (USA), I met up with a guy on a weird looking bike, unpainted with no graphics.  Turns out, he was an engineer and developer of the original Cannondale prototype aluminum bikes. At the time, I was a LBS owner, we swapped rides, and I was very impressed by the ride and stiffness of the bike, unlike the ride of my Columbus Bianchi or Vitus aluminum bikes that I was riding then. We eventually starting selling the Cannondale, later the carbon Kestrel, starting long bench debates over the quality, aesthetics, and $$$ of each of the bikes.I  personally still like the metal bike over carbon

I agree that Look pedals should be on the wall, but first, maybe toe-clips, perhaps with Mr. Kelly joining Mr. Richardson in presenting them as all-time great tech? And I enjoyed your story of encountering the Cannondale engineer and swapping bikes, fascinating and friendly.

After owning many carbon and metal frames, the final answer is undeniable- carbon wins. It is lighter, stiffer and more comfortable if done right. It is simply better...

Carbon bikes are loud. I much prefer the quiet ride of steel.

I think modern plastic helmets need to be introduced to the wall of fame as they save many lives every year and were a huge improvement from the tiny leather strap helmets of the dark ages.

I'm about to buy my first carbon frame. Honestly, the main reason being I just never rode one and I want to replace my nearly 28 pound aluminium bike with any new one. So I might as well go for carbon.

Wall of Fame: index gear shifters made shifting easier a lot back then.

I rode lugged steel Columbus and Reynolds 531 frames back in the 80s. The word among racers was to change frames every year after a hard season of riding and training. That is, the brazed lug design would get weaker and the bike more flexible. Whether that was true or not, I was never quite sure. But it was certain that top of the line steel bikes in the 80s were less stiff than welded "oversized" aluminum frames from Klein and Cannondale. The trade off was comfort. Aluminum quickly gained a reputation for being harsh. I had a bike with a really cool looking aluminum fork back in 1990. It caused be wrist pain. I eventually bought a Kestrel 200 EMS Carbon monocoque in 96 and was shocked by how smooth it rode. And yet my most recent purchase a CAAD 12 with Duraace is almost as comfortable and way stiffer. So I am on the fence. What most important in a frame is fit. I'm still working on that after 35 years.

Steel all day long, reliable, robust and a hand-built frame is awesome.

Hall of fame. Jeeez! guys have you never heard of the pneumatic tyre!!!!

unable to choose! these are both my favourite bike fames..... gcn tech, not playing fair!

What about bikes that are made of bamboo?

As with all things, it is always a matter of preference and it is nice that there are so many material choices now. However, I am more of a fan of metal (steel) now than ever for two reasons in particular. First, I don't race anymore but I do travel with my bike more. Without question I have greater peace of mind with the airlines handling a steel bike than a carbon one. Second, groupsets and wheels are lighter than ever, meaning that I find the weight penalty of metal to be less.... penalizing.

i'm metal all the way.!!!!!!!!!!!

Simon is the picture of self confidence...

full chromo frame/for 93' Specialized Allez(steel)

Tech Wall of Fame: Clipless Pedals!

Hey GCN Tech, will Pinion gearboxes (or similar) hit the Road market before or later? Will we ever ride on a grease-free carbon belt drivetrain?

I like both steel and carbon, but what I don't like is that slope on road bike, like an imitation of MTB.

Aren't the pro bikes supposed to be made of comercially available equipment?

It's funny how all of the metal bike examples you showed had carbon fiber forks. My opinion is that carbon fiber is the best and if you want to go fast there is no substitute.

I have an old Fuji club that i turned into a single speed. It is a Tange Cr-Mo double butted steel frame. Neither my Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4 or my current thick walled titanium Motobecane century elite gravel bike are a smooth as this old steel frame. It rides like butter. If you are not racing and just ride for fitness and fun, Steel is Real.

Wall of fame look pedals 1985,

Wall of Fame - Sturmey Archer internal gear hub! Come on, longevity, reliability, units sold and copied!

I have a carbon (Thompson) for dry weather and blasting around the countryside, a titanium (Enigma) with full guards for those wet UK days and an aluminium for commuting!  There is definitely a difference between the carbon and the Ti, the carbon is far more responsive to pedal input and feels stiffer, it just makes you ride harder!  The Ti is more gentle and more comfortable for those long wet winter days!  As for what is better, there is no straight answer, both have merits depending on what sort of riding you wan to do.  The ti is probably more versatile, the guards can come off, light wheels can go on and lets see what it can do.  Also guards off and wide tyres for a bit gravel riding........cool!

Carbon tubes, aluminum lugs - my '95 trek 2100 frame has a vintage look, but with more "modern" materials. I love it.

Hall of fame - Kick stand or the banana seat

I'll be trying some Gravel rides and I'm inclined to use my steel bike with mechanical shifting and not my carbon bike with Di2

I really liked the air compressor hose over that children’s toy horn... please let customs keep it down there in the pacific, far away from EU.

Is it just me or are they using the "Thomas the tank engine" theme as background music?

After years of working in the bike industry, I converted to an all metal bike stable. Carbon bikes are awesome: fun, fast, and much more resilient and reliable than most people think. But I was really after something with aesthetic and performance longevity that I wouldn't feel an urge to "upgrade" or replace every year for the most marginal of marginal gains or new paint. Sometimes I still wish for a carbon bike (esp in the heat of battle on a group ride), but my Moots and aluminum Merckx seem to get the job done just fine with looks and performance that never go out of style.

Metal for life. Although my road bike is half Ti/half car...the headtube, downtube, and chainstays are Ti. So it rides like Ti 100%

Why is he dressed all in black in 40 degree heat!!!??

Got to Dissagree, Alloy and Metal Frames can be Repaired to a Degree.

I'm a BIG Carboner

where would we be without the invention of the chain........P.s.: I still love steal but I'm more a carboner... whahaha, going to remember that one

Carbon - everything... Love it!

Wall of fame: clipless pedals

factor, all the way

love you guys and everything you do. you should start a podcast

Well of fame: clipless pedal and cleets.

Impressive transition there at 11:25!

I have a steel bike that I built, the frame perfectly suited to my frame. I’ve ridden carbon bikes, and while they are definitely lighter, the comfort of a steel bike that fits you is unparalleled. Carbon might get you more PRs, but steel will take you further.

Car-boner?

After 4 years of grief with my carbon Trek Domane and 4 replacement frames I decided enough was enough and purchased a Titanium Enigma Etape Disc. Titanium has a look and feel that carbon can’t get near so glad I made the move.

Unbelievable you showed the worst picture of my Bike and i didn't get a super nice gutted

I've got an old Opera Palladio Ti/Carbon frame. Opera's a daughter company of Pinarello, and I have to say the frame is sublime. It's got Carbon Forks and Rear seatstays for stiffness, but the allure and durability of Ti.

Carbon is technically better, but steel and ti has soul which will make you better. I don't find carbon bikes all that beautiful.

I have a Colnago carbon bike and a Seven titanium bike.  They are both great bikes, but the Seven was custom designed and feels just right, just like the porridge of the three bears.  But there are so many different bikes that I have ridden or would like to ride, so why choose?

carbon for climbing steel for touring aluminium work horse

How much faster is a carbon bike in kph?

I think stiff carbon frame price is still very expensive. About $3.5k-5k. If you're robust enough, stiff aluminium is the answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz2DknROaI8

Well, this sucks a bit of the fun out of it... https://www.outsideonline.com/2261721/dirty-secret-hiding-your-high-end-mountain-bike

Aheadset

There's only one way to find out... FIGHHHHTTTTT!

Carbon Fiber. Living in the past is fine and all but the future is now.

Thanks for featuring my Baum fellas, cool to see on global media

I have 6 bikes but it's only recently occurred to me that none of them are carbon. I'm not against carbon but I've got 2 steel, 2 alu and 2 titanium. My Ti bikes blow me away and I love 'em! I would get a carbon if I ever raced again.

17:20 race bikes don't have disk brakes, just doesn't look legit

I don't like aluminium frames much other than for budget racing, I have several of those. I have a carbon race bike but I'll tell you what.. 95% of the time I'm riding an old steel race bike made from Columbus SL, it weighs 10kg but it's the best bike I have.

I have a Cannondale CAAD12 (which is aluminum). For the price, I couldn't find a carbon bike that came close in terms of components. It may be a pound it two heavier than my friends full carbon bikes, but we have the same group set and their bikes cost twice as much. And, I think my bike rides just add well as theirs.

Once fit is sorted, the right flex for my weight/strength settles it, whatever the material.

I have a aluminum bike and when on my group rides, I ride along with  those on carbon bike

I need an insole that cools for the summer. eliminate hot spots, that would be awesome! As far as metal vs. carbon, I love my Bianchi carbon bike but I always lusted after a Merckx Team SC

My ritchey has a soul! My next bike will be steel again!

Carbon is the best

Ha, thanks for mentioning me! Check out these wooden bikes: https://renovobikes.com/ http://www.materiabikes.com/ https://connorcycles.com/ I'll be building my own some time this year.

Wall of fame : Look Clipless pedals. Not quite wall of fame: nomination of a thing that revolutionized cycling for me: LED lights. Before LEDs, I had to have huge 12V gel lead acid battery and halogen lights in order to see where I was going. Whole setup weighed 2.5kg and had a run time of an hour, plus all the wiring wasn't very water proof and you could burn yourself touching the lights.

Ive been riding a Super Record equipped Colunbus tubed Benotto for longer than I care to think. Its been raced, bounced, skittled and packed into an aircraft, ridden around the Gulf and back again to the UK. I love this bike. Its almost art. However, for a new feel I just picked up a Trek Emonda SL which shoots around like a scalded cat. Its light, responsive, a little twitchy but the aesthetics are stunning in Trek red, the curves and fat tubes are quite beautiful. BUT.... Im more concerned about this frame breaking on me than I am the Columbus steel and dont expect the Trek to last as long as the Benotto (built 1984). However, as is the general opinion, each has its place, use and dare I say, time.

do a podcast

Focus Paralane aluminium v Trek Domane 4.3? Love them both. Limiting factor? My 65 year old, much used and abused for many sports, legs. Took up riding, on and off road, when I retired at 60. Still trying to go further and faster

Carbon frame production is so damaging to the environment and wasteful of resources (resins etc) I shall stay with alloy. If you are a professional rider it's another matter however. https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/mar/22/carbon-fibre-wonder-material-dirty-secret Perhaps GCN can think deeper?

Double/triple butted steel or titanium

Simon summed it up well. On all three key performance attributes, carbon is the best material if designed right , weight,stiffness and aero. Metals are not far behind, and win on attributes which have nothing to do with performance like price and how it performs in a crash, and how it makes some people feel.

With a similar groupset and from the same manufacturer, my next road bike will be either 1) carbon-framed at 1500 pounds or 2) alloy-framed at 1000 pounds. i.e. it's going to be alloy. Carbon is only for those who can afford it :-)

There is no right answer to CF or metal. Depends on kind of riding, how many bikes you own and budget. I'd love to commute on my Roubaix but that is not the bike to leave outside in New York and expensive groupsets are not made for everyday commute. If money is not an issue CF. Performance bike CF. Mountain CF. Everyday commuter aluminum and preferably belt driven with fenders and rack. Steel is for weird english people willing to pay $4-6k to own "custom" steel clanker or poor africans for sheep transportation.

I'm firmly in the Carbon camp, providing it's a top of the line model. Having raced for 35 years and since retired, I'd have given away my metal bike and still paid the astronomical price for my current bike, Cervelo R5 2018 eTap w/ Zipp 303 tubular wheels.  It's super light, super stiff, super aero, and absorbs road vibrations.  You couldn't pay me to ride steel, sorry.

See its all about what you prefer, steel give you ride quality that carbon cannot.It also provides more comfort than a standard carbon or aluminium frame.Carbon gives you exceptional lightness and stiffness.Modern steel tubing such as the columbus Xcr are both light(still heavier than carbon of course!) but it does give stiffness like carbon.Thanks

Steel is not less expensive in the USA. Carbon is the best price for similar performance. Steel bikes in the USA are these boutique custom gigs when you can get a scott foil or something at a GREAT price... However Ti might be the right choice overall... Still it would be hard for me to get rid of my carbon... But the carbon is much too flashy to commute where as a metal buke doesn;t look at pricey to thieves

Low end bike is 250 gr heavier and 3.5 seconds slower ?

When I've on training I use aluminium and when i ride with my friends I use carbon.

and which has the smallest carbon footprint? ... it's a tie , "cause both have wheeeeeeeeels!!!!" ... but seriously have there been studies about it ?

Steel is the best because most bikes in the world are made of it. Steel gives so many the opportunity to cycle and transport themselves, their families and goods. See buffalo bikes as an example.

My BMX bikes are steel they feel like they can take a good punishment and survive a dent or two, my Mountainbikes are aluminium and they feel not heavy, but rigid enough to go over rocky roads and survive falling over, my Road bikes are carbon and they feel fragile, super light and stiff like a race car - and they hate bumps, but boy do they feel fast! And I feel this is how it should be.

I've got a size 54cm stainless Moth Attack frame, carbon wheels and enve cockpit + Sram eTAP. The bike weighs exactly 16 pounds with pedals and cages. Rides like a dream.

GCN Tech - from what I have seen, Pinarello bikes can be quite unreliable! Otherwise I think any bikes that the pros use are great.

GCN Tech hi! I have gotten into 3 quite serious solo accidents (no car) in a 100% carbon everything and while the wheels have cracked, they were repaired, but the frame was completely unscratched. Even having slammed into a pile of rocks and falling off a cliff (not me, the bike). That bike is specialized and retails for like $7K. But I don’t have a preference as my gravel bike is specialized aluminum and it is the most comfy cross bike I can imagine. It’s like riding in a cloud. So I’m straddling the fence. I hope that’s allowed!!

Great video thanks. I have an idea for a test/experiment? I have been told my full carbon bike is cheap and rubbish carbon. (I won't mention brand) it is my first bike £850 new full 105 and vision 30 wheels. If i payed twice the price I could have bought scott giant etc similar spec... but they are made from better carbon? (Apparently) I would love to swap the frameset out for a good carbon frameset and maybe a top end frameset and do a direct comparison test? Would there be any difference? Essentially the same bike apart from frameset! Would it be stiffer probably but is stiffer better faster more or less comfortable etc... Thanks for all your videos they are excellent.

I love my titanium. Very comfortable for those long days in the saddle!

I am a metalhead

Metal Frame with Carbon Wheels

Modern steels ( slightly above 853) are light enough for fine col climbing if your not a tdf er. And you will have accidents that are not your fault and they shine through. 99% of us are amateurs holding down normal jobs so as long as you have lashings of solid carbon Campy your only loosing under 10% in performance re a carbon frame.

In the future we won't see any old carbon race bikes on sale 'cause their all in the bin. Today you can buy a 80's nicely built steel frame and don't need to worry of it suddenly breaking.

If you are going to buy a nice steel bike, the frame alone will be way over 2000€

Aluminum has it all, to me carbon is ridiculous, crazy expensive plastic basically, it cracks from an impact easily? That's insane! All my aluminum frames have never cracked, friends have cracked theirs just riding along haha

Didn’t GCN do a episode on the “spring effect” of a steel bike? Personally, I have not yet found a carbon bike that sings to me like a steel bike. Carbon feels dead and inert. Feeling alone. Have to give it to steel. Carbon is lighter, can be laid up for compliance, and are stiffer. My dream bike would be a custom ti. Someday.....

How can you feature a comment where the poster misspells the word “steel”?

Don’t forget bamboo

Vitus carbons from the 90's are still being ridden today and being lugged carbon as opposed to mono-frame carbon they were inherently inferior. Carbon is steel minus the iron.

Bikes are not fast or faster, it's the rider. I over take F10s on my 11 year old aluminium bike. Also some of the "Facts" in this video are incorrect. Also did you notice how he was hoisted by his own petard? He said the lighter carbon bikes are lighter than the lightest metal? And the carbon can be made into Aero bikes... well one thing Aero bikes are not is light. So if you want all the advantages of carbon then your bike is going to get heavier, also Aero bikes are more uncomfortable in my experience. And he said carbon is stiffer, but he admits metal can be as stiff? So that's a contradiction. Also carbon does not stay stiff, UV light and usage make them softer over time as the resin degrades. But metal stays stiff. Finally, he said carbon frame are not just popped out a mould... that's almost exactly how they are made bar a bit of sanding and paint. They cost on average only $300 to make and take about 2 hours to produce. That's why the manufacturers love them so much. Titanium and steel take skilled workers days to make and cost way more in labour. So you get value for money with metal.

Carbon breaks Steel dents You decide, after a crash, if you want to pick up the pieces of your "broken" bike or look at some dents in your frame and keep riding.

What about Ti?

I bought titanium because the raw metal looks sharp and the fact that I broke my first carbon bike.

Metaler. Carbon is great in theory but consumer grade carbon framesets almost always have significant (or at least non-insignificant) imperfections. Every carbon frame has to be made (partially) by hand and when production numbers have to compensate low cost, few frames come out perfect. These imperfections won't cause catastrophic failure, but they increase wear and reduce the reliability of important parts like bottom brackets (Hello, worn out press-fit!). That's my take anyway. I'm by no means an expert on this. Check out this channel, if you want to learn about carbon bike parts (seriously, this guy is like the Sheldon Brown of carbon): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY9JUMYI54lLOHpb_zbIedQ

I miss Cpt.Retro already

I miss matt :'(

issue is most brands' welds on alloy bikes look like crap :[ carbon frames have that nice, smooth clean look to them, and for that reason the higher price is totally justified, i have yet to see an alloy bike looking as nice as a carbon one. a bike that looks good is more enjoyable to ride, as we know :D

stella artois! for that you get a SUPER NICE!

I have ridden and love both materials, but the question is too broad to answer. I would like to see GCN Tech dive a bit deeper into the materials though, exploring titanium and the absolutely stunning wooden frames from companies like Axalko in Spain and Renovo in Portland.

filthy car-boners

Metaller, Steel is Real.

As the owner of two Colnago Masters and with my racing days a distant memory, there is no need to change. I still can ride as fast as many of my younger peers on a carbon winder bike. By the way, I priced a new Master with the latest kit and it would set me back $11,000. Hardly less expensive than carbon.

Sorry, "wunder bike"

I rode a 1985 Eddy Merckx with Columbus tubing for 25 years (90k miles) Not one frame failure. Then moved to lightweight Carbon. In 10 years went through 4 different frames that had cracked in various place ( no crashes, falling over, or over torquing) by just using them. Kestrel, Specialized, Cannondale, Trek. All the big names. Last one, a Madone 6 series I repaired 3 different times. It cracked again and I gave up on. Riding titanium for last two years- no frame failures so far. Love the stiffness and lightweight of the carbon but it won't do you any good if you can't ride it without breaking it. Titanium is so comfortable and quiet in comparison. Only difference in the last ten years is I'm older and less strong than I was when riding the Merckx. Less power out put, more breaks with carbon. Comment on less material ( lighter) = less reliability rings home with me. Your mileage may vary.

I like to coin the phrase... Carbonite!

i prefere a bike that bends than one that snaps and has no way to fix it as carbon.

you haven’t a fucking clue what your talking about you wanker

Real steel.

I use carbonfibre for kitebuilding - it gives vicious splinters and other nasty bites when it breaks.  The thought of riding a bike with a carbon seat post OMG NO NO NO NO

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