Bester Vespa Touren Motor | QUATTRINI M-244 Setup Für Alltag, Berge, Stadtverkehr {deutsch}

Bester Vespa Touren Motor | QUATTRINI M-244 Setup   Für Alltag, Berge, Stadtverkehr {deutsch}

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Today we have a visitor at SIP, Timo from Wolfenbüttel. I am always happy to have visitors, but especially today. Because Timo comes all the way from my old hometown Wolfenbüttel here to us in Landsberg. Timo not only has a Vespa, he also has his own YouTube channel, where he provides information about Vespa, too. His channel is called: Blechgefährten.

Exactly! Timo also came visit us, because he has a certain project in mind. Perhaps you would like to briefly introduce yourself and the project to our viewers? Yes of course! Hi, from my side too! My name is Timo from Blechgefährten and I'm from Wolfenbüttel. I came to SIP and especially to Jesco, because my PX conversion project gets into the stage of engine tuning. The project has been going on for about a year now. The other day I stood in front of it and thought to myself that I have to do something to the engine now, so that I can continue from there.

I thought of Jesco, with whom I had been in contact before, and accepted his invitation to SIP in Landsberg. And now I hope that you can help me. I hope so too! In any case, this project suits us very well.

Because we are repeatedly asked for a recommendation for a good engine setup that is suitable for everyday use and touring. So we're asked what our recommendation is and which setup is best put together to have a nice engine with around 20 hp. In principle, that's exactly what Timo wants for his project.

So of course I'm very happy that it all goes so well together. I prepared a little something in the workshop. We will take a look right away and talk through the individual components. We take a look at which variants there are and what's best to stay away from.

The engine case is clear, here we have a beautiful original. What should be the basis of your engine? Well, I have browsed your shop and I have been thinking about the setup for a long time. Some time ago I built the 210 Polini, but I don't want to go for it this time.

I thought I'd try something different this time. That's why I brought the Quattrini m244 into play. And now I'm curious about your opinion and whether you even have it here.

Well, so lucky! I have it right here. This is simply because we have spoken before, of course. And that I am of the opinion that this cylinder is currently the best basis for any tuned Vespa 200 engine. It's just very awesome. It is strong in torque, has a very wide power band and is very smooth running. Regardless of whether it is an everyday engine or a racing engine, it can do everything.

It's a great cylinder. When I planned the setup for me was also very important that it's pretty much a plug&play setup. Just like it was with the Polini I built. So that I just have to get the right components, plug them in and then start riding, to put it simply. But I think we will clarify the question of whether the housing needs to be machined or not afterwards. At least if we want to squeeze out a little more performance.

Exactly, we'll get to that later. Perhaps one or two special features of the Quattrini cylinder that I would like to briefly draw your attention to: As you can see, the cylinder does not have a cylinder base. Because it has no base, it was possible to drill a 72mm hole. However, to achieve this they also had to trick a bit. This cylinder needs a crankshaft with a very long connecting rod.

Originally Quattrini has a connecting rod with a length of 126 mm. At SIP we also have a version with a length of 127 mm. As I said, the long connecting rod made it possible to go without the cylinder base. Therefore, a piston with a very low compression height has been used. The compression height is the distance between the top of the piston and the axis of the piston pin. And because it is very small and the connecting rod is very long, it was possible to create a reliable cylinder with little piston tilting even without a foot.

That means if I had a cylinder base here and made the hole too big, the wall thickness would simply be too low. Exactly. In that case you wouldn’t have any wall thickness at all, I think. I think the case has a 73 mm hole.

Then what is the reason why I still have a cylinder base? Is it just to center the cylinder or does it also have a fluidic background? There are two reasons for this: Firstly, it centers the cylinder and secondly, you have a longer piston guide. That's actually pretty good. If I can show this real quick ...

The piston comes out about that far at bottom dead center. This is the bottom dead center, that means the piston reverses from the downward to upward movement, here. It tilts slightly and that naturally has a negative effect on wear and tear. But, what you can see quite well here: The axis of the piston pin lies under the sealing surface. That means it cannot tip over this axis. And as a result, the overturning moment is relatively weak.

One could speculate for a long time whether this works or not. Fortunately, the cylinder has been around for a while and we know that it works. There are empirical values, yes.

Okay, but if I have 72mm here, what is the opening on the case? Does that have to be enlarged somehow? No, it can remain standard. The trick, so to speak, of the whole thing is that nothing needs to be changed. What I particularly like about this new version of the Quattrini: There is a small hole in the cylinder bore above the outlet.

This is a decompression hole. This should make kickstarting the engine easier. Normally, if you don't have this hole, the piston starts to compress from here.

That means you have to compress a relatively high volume from the standing position to kick start the scooter. With this hole it only starts from here. This gives you less space that you have to compress and it is easier to kick start it.

Now you might wonder why the hole from the outlet is not always that high. This is because otherwise you would have terrible engine timings and far too little usable stroke. That is also the reason why this hole is so small here. Because at higher speeds or once the engine is running, the cross-section of the hole is too small to let out any noticeable exhaust gases or fresh gases in the time it takes for the piston to cover this distance. This means that above a certain speed, this simply no longer has any effect. However, it has an effect at a low speed and should also lead to the idle gas running more smoothly.

This is a handy thing, especially with large-volume single cylinders. As we saw we don't have a cylinder base with the Quattrini. Is it then simply sealed with a cylinder base gasket or how does it work? Is there just a seal and a centering pin on it? The kit here includes cylinder base gaskets.

In your case, we won't take them, because I'll try to convince you to go with the SIP crankshaft, of course. We'll come to that in a moment. It has a 1mm longer connecting rod. I'll show that real quick.

This one millimeter longer connecting rod has the advantage that you can play better with the engine timings. This cylinder is available for 57 mm stroke and for 60 mm stroke. If someone has the 57 variant and buys our crankshaft, they can adjust the engine timings a little better. If you set that a little lower, then the engine timings are as desired again.

But in your case we have the version with 60 mm stroke and I got a 1 mm cylinder base gasket here. That balances out the connecting rod. It should fit in with that.

What is still very interesting with the Quattrini: Since the cylinder does not have a foot for centering, it is only guided and positioned using the stud bolts. Because of this, these stud bolt holes are relatively narrow. There are certain Piaggio cases where one stud is half a millimeter different from that of all other cases.

It doesn't fit with them. With these cases the cylinder doesn't fit plug&play. That is why these instructions tell you which of the stud bolt holes you have to drill out by half a millimeter so that the whole thing fits again. This means that it is really nicely centered via three stud bolts and the fourth is then the one that compensates for the tolerance in the housing. Exactly, it's all about the one stud. So far, I've always been lucky with my Quattrinis that everything has worked out.

But there are certain housings where a stud bolt is slightly offset and you then have to drill it out. Annoying, but that's how it is. Do you have any special studs for the Quattrini that you would recommend? It is good that you are asking this question now. The original studs work. Usally I always recommend stud bolts from the automatic range.

They always come with a bit of self-locking stuff. I think there are some back there, the green ones. You're right! There I have it! This version is too short, it is for the T5 engine. However, it also comes from the automatic or modern Vespa range. Usually you screw this side into the engine block. Screw locking is already on here.

Then it has two tapers. These are so-called expansion bolts. And that should mean that the cylinder does not deform as much when it gets warm. I don't know if it works, but it looks good, so I'll take it.

Then I would say we get to the crankshaft next. I've picked one with a 60 mm stroke that fits your setup exactly. Originally we have 57 mm stroke and now we have 3 mm more stroke. Is that because we are installing the Quattrini or could we also take a 57mm? The Quattrini is available in two versions. One for the original stroke with 57 mm and one for 60 mm stroke.

60 mm crank shafts fit plug & play into the original housing. At least ours. Attention, Quattrini is different! But ours fits plug & play in there. Do we have more displacement as a result? As a result, we actually have more displacement. I think that's 12 cc more.

232 cc to 244 cc - 12 cc more. Now when I unpack this crankshaft, it's a rotary valve crankshaft. As you can see the crankshaft has a light tungsten insert at the bottom.

This makes it particularly well balanced and extremely smooth-running. That means it was once on the balancing machine, was balanced and then the corresponding tungsten weight came in? No, it is pre-calculated like that and the weight is already in the right place during production. The selection of the crankshaft requires a decision that has to be made beforehand: Do I go with the regularl rotary valve inlet or do I convert to membrane? For what you're up to, I would recommend using the standard rotary valve inlet. This saves you a little work and you can just generally build a better everyday engine. I just said clutch because I saw this groove for the woodruff key that comes in here.

Could I drive a reinforced clutch or Cosa clutch with it? You can drive all PX clutches on the crankshaft as normal. But I have something special in store for you. What I have here is a prototype of our new crankshaft. Hopefully it will be available from September.

At least the planned delivery date is in September. I am a little skeptical whether this will really work out, I am more likely to assume October. I never make promises in my videos. I've made the mistake twice already of promising something that didn't work out. You always have to backtrack and that's really stupid.

That’s why I’m going to say: We’ll see when it comes. But the cool thing is that we got two prototypes. I still have one of them here. And I would like to offer you that. Namely, it has two components that are different. Can I guess? Sure.

It is also polished. What stands out is this here. Can you see that in the camera? The toothing here instead of the woodruff key? I can show them in comparison here. Here is the slot for the woodruff key, the groove.

And here I have the multi-tooth version. Isn't that what you say? Yes, splines or whatever. If you hold this up so nicely in the camera, you can immediately see that this is much thicker than the original. In terms of dimensioning, this is a completely different level than the originals. You won't be able to see the second difference.

This crankshaft has a stroke of 62 mm. This one is 60 mm, this one 62 mm. This has a small disadvantage: If you want to install a 62 mm shaft in the housing, you have to drill-finish the small engine case a bit.

Okay, you have to explain that. Where is this drill-finished? Do we have to change anything about the diameter? Probably not, right? What you need to drill-finish is this diameter here. Makes sense, because if the eye wanders further out here, I have a larger stroke. And if I take a bigger stroke, I can't use the old one because I don't have enough "meat" here. Right. The stroke is only determined by the distance between the crank pin and the center of the crankshaft.

For more stroke, the bolt moves outwards and so that there is still enough meat, this cheek is enlarged here. However, this also means that more space must be created here. It is not much and the centering remains and works as usual, though.

So this is relatively easy. Okay, and the sealing surface also remains untouched. That is always a very critical point. Yes, the sealing surface remains completely untouched. 57 to 60 to 62; that means we get even more displacement, right? Yes, exactly, with the 62 mm stroke we get a little more displacement. With that we actually have more than the 244 cc that we mentioned earlier.

Then you will probably be happy about the feature that our connecting rod is one millimeter longer. Because this allows you to better balance the engine timings again. But you've already mentioned the really special thing about this crankshaft: It's the toothing for the clutch. Usually this is a cylindrical stump with a woodruff key. Where you always have to worry when you pull the clutch off that it is in the right place and does not fall in.

This toothing originally comes from the BFA engine. The BFA 306 engine. It has this toothing on the clutch. With that I made the experience that, even with 70 hp, I only have to loosen these screws.

It is also included here in the kit. It's bigger than the original. But does it also fit into the clutch? Often there's a problem that this nut doesn't fit in. Originally a castle nut goes in there. Then there are those collar nuts that are turned off so that they can slip in. This one is even bigger and still has to fit the clutch.

That's right, but it fits. As I said, even with 70 hp build I loosened this nut and was then able to easily pull off the clutch by hand. The connection was free of wear. I put the clutch back on, tightened the nut and everything was fine.

The original connection is not a major weak point. Usually it holds up quite well. But if it doesn't last, it's really annoying.

Either you break down or you have cold welds on it. In some cases you will not get it off and back on properly. Or the woodruff key moves backwards.

This is a solution that you need once and never again. Yes, I know that, I usually use tire levers to loosen the clutch a bit. I don't need to do that with this one, as I can really simply just take it off.

Exactly. The whole solution was originally designed very elaborately for the BFA 306 engine. We wanted it to be easier and to be able to offer it everywhere. So now there will be a range of crankshafts that have that. Among other things, we already have the normal Cosa clutch with teeth.

Cool, and the nut fits in here too. But isn't that oversized if I only have 20-25 hp? Let's put it this way: The original connection is designed for 8 HP on the rear wheel. If you almost triple that now, it's no stupid idea to change that connection. Of course, the original will hold up in most cases. It only gets really interesting with later engines.

But: This is not much more expensive. The price for this crankshaft has not yet been determined. Perhaps that is different, once we cut the video, then we'll show the price here. This one here is pretty much the same price to the standard solution. In other words, if I were to build a new engine like this, I would always just take the version with the toothing at this point. Because I only have advantages by it.

We have the toothing available for different clutch systems. Why wasn't that done earlier? Probably for manufacturing reasons, right? The production is relatively complex, yes. There are other manufacturers who build such toothing systems, but they are not as complex as ours. With us, the diameter is even larger than with other systems. Or rather, BFA decided to do it like this. We just stayed with BFA toothing.

It was a bit complicated to recreate for all manufacturers because it is quite time-consuming. But it works really well for that. We also have this inner part with the toothing individually in the shop.

So if someone is looking for a new crankshaft and wants to order the one with the toothing, he doesn't have to order the entire clutch, it is enough if he orders the inner part. This makes it very easy to switch to the toothing system. But that's how it comes into the series, right? Yes, that's exactly how it comes into the series. With the hub and the toothing.

We already have such a crankshaft with the toothing, 60 mm stroke and a regular connecting rod in our program. It is already for sale. Uh, joar. I take! A terribly annoying part. If it breaks, you can dismantle the whole engine. That is why this is so important: Better spend an extra dollar and buy a good oil seal straight away.

There used to be solid rubber rings in brown, black and blue. Then there were metal rings that only had a rubber in the middle. There was the blue and the brown Rolf - as we used to call them. "The brown Rolf" sounds kind of funny.

It was always the best oil seal you could find. Rolf stopped that at some point. Corteco then built good oil seals again. Unfortunately, they had a bit too much pretension, and as a result, they occasionally rubbed the bearing and broke. Fortunately, at some point Malossi came up with the idea to take care of it. And Malossi then made a shaft seal, which they cut to size on the outside.

So on the outside metal, sanded, and then the rubber lip. You just slam it in there and it fits perfectly. For years I have been telling everyone to only use this ring and not any other, regardless of the engine case. Even if the engine case has a small groove it still fits.

All that doesn't matter, just take this oil seal and you're set. It's the best on the market and it always works. I've been telling people that for years, and it wasn't wrong either. But now comes the other bag (laughs). But I still have another bag.

Piaggio took care of the matter themselves. Piaggio has launched a new oil seal together with Rolf. You see that it says Rolf up here.

So they're back in business. This is now the black Rolf instead of the brown Rolf. And I have to say: this thing is neat. This is rubber vulcanized onto metal and then rubber again.

Exactly, it's done in the same way as with those old rubber rings. This has the advantage that the rubber can better compensate for small unevenness in the oil seal seat on the outside. There are a lot of people who now swear by this thing very much. I think they both work well.

Okay, so Malossi or the black Rolf. I would like to recommend these two to you. Use only the two.

Stay away from everything else, you just get a headache. Next, let's get to the carburetor. I would stick with the SI carburetor with the setup that you have in mind - that is, suitable for everyday use, tour-friendly, mountain-friendly.

I have chosen a 26 mm carburetor. This is the original 24 mm carburetor, enhanced to 26 mm. I myself think the Pinasco model is very good. I think it's well done and there are good accessories to go with it. Accessories that I also like to install. On the one hand, this air intake.

I know that from Polini. Yes, there are different versions. I think there are at least three to four companies that make something like this. Here it is included in the kit.

Since I no longer have an air filter when I use this air intake funnel, Pinasco has included this small part. That's a foam piece and that's the new air filter. Wait, that thing comes on here? The old carburetor casing, will it stay? The carburetor casing remains, yes. The inlet / outlet for the air too and that has to be somewhere in front of it. That goes under the bench. Up there where the hole is, or what? Exactly.

Actually not the worst idea, I think. The carburetor casing sits here on the engine and then comes this hose that goes to the frame. There's a hole under the bench in the hinge at the front. And that's, in principle, where the engine takes air in. This foam thing is simply clamped in as an air filter. Maybe not quite as effective as the original, however, still not a bad idea.

It works pretty well with this air intake. Depending on the setup, the whole thing generates a bit of extra power, usually around 1 hp. Because the air intake funnel increases the Venturi effect, right? You simply have less resistance and this whole shape is designed to be very aerodynamic. Small disadvantage: With this funnel, the carburetor is a little more difficult to tune. For me it is sometimes the case that the carburetor chokes if I cut it short when the engine is warm, roll and then suddenly open it again. But you can also jet that away.

But these are effects that are a little more pronounced. That means you have to give the carburetor a little more love when tuning. And secondly, of course, it is louder than an original air filter. That means Pinasco takes the original Dell'Orto Spaco carburetor and drills it out. Exactly. Different manufacturers do that, but I think the kit is just good here.

What I still recommend is this cover for the carburetor pan. This is basically an airbox. As a result, I gain more volume in the intake chamber and can therefore get 1 hp more power out relatively easily. It's just a plastic part that I'm replacing, which gives me more volume in the carburetor.

And that alone makes about one horsepower for such engines. Another thing I find really cool at Pinasco: They supply this rubber pin here. If I have installed this intake funnel, then the idle gas screw is in here and is held in place with a spring so that it does not twist.

But, of course, it cannot be completely ruled out that such a idle throttle screw will loosen at some point. If that happens with the original air filter, it doesn't matter because the parts of the idle gas screw cannot fall into the carburetor. But here they can fall into the carburetor. And there are already enough people to whom this has happened.

If, for example, only this little spring falls into the carburetor and is pulled through on the rotary valve, then the entire rotary valve motor is broken and you really have a lot of fun. That thing, you just put it on top of here and wedge it underneath and then this screw can't loosen. I have to see if the space fits. In my PX conversion, I widened the bulge a little where the rear shock absorber passes.

That should actually fit. That's one thing that works really well and that I wanted to recommend to you. With this setup you probably have about 2 hp more than the normal SI, including the air filter, etc.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but with a setup of 20 hp it is a performance increase of 10 percent. I wanted to say, that's 10 percent more performance thanks to more volume and a small funnel. One of our most successful products is in here. In our other video you already asked me about the VAPE ignition and I told you that it was completely good. So I recommend them to you too. Is the ignition in there? There's the ignition in there, yes.

Such a small part? Oh, with a fan, right? Yes exactly, everything is included. You can immediately see the most important thing about the ignition: it glitters. I don't like everyday motors with fan wheels that are too light.

That gets nervous and annoying and therefore I would advise against it. As you can see, this whole thing is made of solid material. We tried to maintain a little flywheel so that the engine would run reasonably smoothly. I don't have my embedded magnets in here anymore, right? No, but here. These are the coils for the alternator and this is the pole wheel. And with us, the pole wheel is separate from the fan.

That means I can now screw this from the front. Exactly, you put that thing on here and then the fan is screwed into place with six screws. The good thing about this pole wheel is that it is one-piece. Normally you have this cone, which is then connected to the pole wheel via rivets. But these rivets are often a weak point in many ignitions because they just give up at some point.

Here everything is made from one piece. That means they never give up. The alternator is good because it has a high light output.

Other tuning ignitions have the problem that the current output is not that high. If you then stand at the traffic lights or at the level crossing at night, the light always gets dark and just glows away. This one generally has a little more power than other tuning ignitions. Did I tell you it would be all LED? LED headlights, LED handlebar end indicators, LED taillight. Do you have to pay attention to the fact that this is a direct current variant and not an alternating current variant? I happened to pick out a direct current variant for you here. Perfect That meets pretty well at first.

But you will most likely still need a battery with LED. Or some other kind of buffer. Because LED has a so-called threshold voltage and below this voltage the whole thing simply goes out. This means that if you are now standing at the traffic light at a low speed, it can happen to you that the lights simply go out. That means there is no dimming or glowing, there is only on or off. Exactly.

I drive an LED headlight myself and it works without any problems. However, depending on the setup, you may need a battery or something similar as a buffer. But I can supply the speedometer with it and have direct current for all my components, which I now have in my PX. That means I don't have to use a rectifier? The rectifier is included here. This is where my AC power comes out and that is ultimately what differs from the other kit.

That I have my direct current right here. If you use this on your PX, you have to rewire it a bit compared to the original electrical system. But we have spent quite a bit of time on these instructions.

It's all in there. I already have the wiring harness. The advantages summarized again: Slightly lighter fan, but not too light. Higher power yield and an unbreakable pole wheel.

The fan is CNC machined and the price is lower than other sports ignitions available. And also available in the direct current version. We have two versions: The Sport and the Road version. The sport variant adjusts the ignition curve. Similar to ignitions like Vespatronic, Malossi, Polini, etc. That's all these EDM ignitions.

They all have a specific ignition curve. And we had a very similar ignition curve programmed for the sports ignition. Then we have the road variant and it has a smooth ignition curve. I picked out the road variant for you. Such ignition curves are never quite straight.

We have also shown here what exactly it looks like. I always use the road version for the type of engine you want to build it. You have such a flat performance curve that it hardly pays off to mess around with the sport variant. Then it has to go really well with your engine in terms of the curve so that it all makes sense. It's a bit easier and one less source of error. Not because the sport variant breaks, but because it can simply ignite in a certain area at the wrong time if you are not careful.

Before we come to the whole topic of "transmission", I would like to clarify with you how the whole mixture comes out of the engine. So to the exhaust. I almost thought so. So that shouldn't be a "red blush" under it. It should be visually inconspicuous and therefore actually a box. And which box? Yeah yeah Coincidentally, we have exactly the perfect one here again, namely the SIP Road 3.0

A box exhaust which, as desired, is particularly inconspicuous. There are various box systems on the market. You can also see the test between different box exhaust systems in our exhaust test video.

This is now the SIP Road 3.0. This has the advantage that it is built on a box in its original size. So from the height, right? In terms of all dimensions, the box is like an original box. This is good because it hangs very inconspicuously under the scooter.

In general, this exhaust is designed in such a way that it is quite inconspicuous and allows maximum lean angle. It fits with all centre stands and can also be mounted on oldies such as a Sprint or a VBB. Do these small plates still fit in here? I think with the Polinibox you have to hook these springs right into the floor board, because these little hook-ins don't fit in anymore.

That's always relatively tight, but here it fits just like with the original exhaust. It's just welded together there, and this bracket is also fully welded, now. The manifold is made of slightly thicker material to muffle the noise a bit. But the best thing about the exhaust is the power, of course.

There are even more powerful box exhausts, but they are bigger, louder and more rev-heavy. And then there is this segment of box exhausts that are more for everyday use. In this segment, the SIP Road 3.0 is one of the strongest exhausts, along with Polini and Malossi. However, the SIP Road 3.0 is the only one that is based on an original box.

And which also combines torque with power. Malossi also has an original box, but it is much louder and much more rev-heavy. This is what makes the SIP Road 3.0 so convenient for such engines. We don't have to go into every detail, but very roughly: Is the diameter different here? Does it differ anywhere else? I mean after this box, somewhere around here? The part that basically determines the power is the manifold here.

Here we have a manifold that is getting larger and larger in cross section. The steepness with which the angles diverge here determines how the exhaust works. This is designed for the cross sections and time cross sections - especially of the cylinder. Because of this it produces more power than an original exhaust. How much power approximately? That depends very much on the setup. On the setup you have in mind, for example, it will bring 2-4 hp more than the SIP Road 2.0.

But again 2-4 hp more than an original exhaust. That is already quite significant. The exhaust also has the advantage that it works well with almost any setup.

You can build these tuned exhausts in such a way that they need a very special engine setup. A setup in which they get the optimum performance out of. But there are also some exhausts that always increase the power, no matter what engine is in front of it.

So I've noted: I can install the SIP Road 3.0 relatively setup-independent. It has quite a wide power band as I understand it. I've installed a Polini box on the Polini "Rentnervespa" I once built - it just made sense in that case.

Provocative question: Polini box or SIP Road 3.0? The Polini box is really good I have to admit. Depending on the setup it varies a bit which one is stronger. They really don't take much for each other.

But the special thing about the SIP Road 3.0 is the following: The Polini box is the biggest on the market. That means the volume inside the box is the biggest with Polini. We tried to realize the same performance with an original box.

That was the big challenge, and fortunately we succeeded. Whether someone gets something out of it, he must decide for himself. However, our box is very inconspicuous as a result.

Second advantage over the Polini box: The manifold is designed in such a way that the exhaust fits even on oldies. That is Sprint and older models. Without the manifold touching the centre stand.

That means I can ride it on my GTR with PX engine? Exactly! Gearbox. From primary or from where? The primary belongs to the gearbox. It determines how long all gears are, so to speak.

That means you can have the same gear ratio from first to fourth gear, but one time very long with a long primary ratio and the other time shorter. This clutch here now has 23 teeth. This is the original gear ratio from the PX200.

If you build an engine with very high torque, which is definitely possible with a Quattrini with 62 mm stroke, then it is worthwhile to extend the gear ratio. Because it can easily pull that and you can ride with calmer revs at high speeds. That means I would actually have to increase that.

Or reduce my following sprocket. Exactly. In my experience, it is recommended to use a sprocket with 24 teeth. This is the easiest. Does this come helically toothed? DRT also offers this with helical cut teeth. You can easily combine this with the original gear ratio.

I drove it myself on my PX touring scooter with almost the same setup. Okay, so 24/65? 24/65 or 24/64. The cylinder still pulls that well. That depends a little bit on what you're going to do with your transmission.

Let's see! What I have picked out for you now is this. These input shafts are now available in sportier gradations. This is a DRT input shaft with original gradation. This one is a Benelli input shaft with fourth gear one tooth shorter. But there are also input shafts where both third and fourth gears are shorter.

And there are also input shafts where the third gear is one tooth shorter and the fourth gear is two teeth shorter. This causes your gear spread to be much tighter. I would not recommend this for a strong Quattrini everyday engine, though. The spread is smaller, meaning the gear connections get faster? That means I don't lose as much speed between gears when I shift? This is your rpm, this is your power. Now you have your power graph, which looks something like this. That's your power over your revolutions.

Let's say you're driving lazy and you want to shift gears here. If you have a short gearbox ratio, then you come out here, for example. That means you still have almost full power, even in the next gear. If you have a big gear spread, so a big jump from one gear to the other, you might get out here. That means you're shifting and suddenly you don't have any power. But since the Quattrini has such a broad power band, you can afford a bigger jump.

So if you have a Quattrini, it looks something like this. Now if you shift here, it doesn't matter that much if you get out here or there. So what do I get out of it at the end? If you decide to drive a sporty set-up with tight gear shifts, you have the problem that you have to choose between a low top speed or a bad start in first gear.

Means that the engine is a little sluggish. You have a very long gear ratio in first gear, but you have a good top speed. The whole thing makes sense when you have a curve like this here. So if you want to race.

In that case you're shifting here and you want to get out here, preferably on the same level. If you have a big spread, then all of a sudden you end up here and you have no power. That's why it's worth having a tight gear spread here. But that's not what you want to build.

You want to cover as wide a speed range as possible, where you can ride comfortably. That's why I'd advise the original input shaft or just one tooth shorter in fourth gear. That means you get shorter with the input shaft. But you still have the gear wheels on the main shaft.

That's what you always refer to when you talk about the short fourth gear. You can talk about both there. There are both possibilities.

I have two fourth gears here. The original with 35 teeth and one with 36 teeth. Here, it's the other way around, of course. Here the 36er is the shorter one. Which I think is totally fine for everyday engines like this: The engine gets much stronger and is very torquey.

So you can afford it to have a little longer gear ratio. That's why I like to stay in fourth gear about the same as is with the original gear ratio, lengthen the primary ratio a little bit and also lengthen the first to third gear minimally. This gives me a nice, crisp connection into fourth gear even with the longer primary ratio. Caused by the third gear being a bit longer. At the same time I can still drive over a wide gear spread and have a reasonably low RPM at a comfortable cruising speed of over 100 km/h. I see, that means we do it the other way around.

We don't make the fourth gear shorter, we make the first through third gear longer. Because we have so much torque, we can afford to do that for now. Even if we have a somewhat slower starting speed in first gear.

Which is relatively unimportant in this case, because with this setup you have so much torque that you can still start ten times better than with an original scooter. Yes, that makes sense! Now I have to buy three gears and another input shaft, why don't I just use the short fourth gear? You have a slightly higher top speed. Now if you just shorten the fourth one, then of course you'll be shorter there.

In the other case you don't become shorter in the fourth gear, but longer in the other three. With what is available on the market, especially with a PX, my experience has been that this works more harmoniously. But it costs money, of course, and you can do it differently.

Now this one is without the primary damper, is that all put together yet? This is a set here, or what? Exactly, I think that's really important, so I'd like to point that out again. The PX is sometimes a bit prone to problems in the gearbox. That's why I would always advise to take shock dampers that have more damping distance. For example, from DRT. Here you can see that the springs are relatively flat and thus the shock damper has more damping distance than original. Many gearbox damages are caused by this, that the original shock dampers hit the spring end relatively early and the force then passes through to the tooth flanks.

Or into the engine housing. And one of the two breaks then. So the springs are flatter, I have more play between each spring element, so I can get more damping distance. With DRT I think you have 3-4 mm more damping distance overall.

They are already in there? They are already in there. That's something where that's all already prepared and already put together. There is also a countershaft from Crimaz, where you can screw it all together.

That's super handy because it's super simple, it's quick, and it also has decent shock dampers. And it's pretty much the same price. But of course it's okay if you say you want to stay with the original countershaft. I'll mull over it, but that sounds plausible. Last, but not least: Let's move on to the main shaft.

You have the problem that you have an old PX gearbox. Shall I show that for a moment? You're welcome to do that. You get this out, I'll get the other out. Now I've prepared something. That's funny, isn't it? So my PX has a Lusso oil pump in it, but also an old PX main shaft.

You can see that there is a spacer ring and a snap ring at this side here. We don't have that on the other side. So on this side. Here, the gear is directly against this shoulder. There's no snap ring. That's how you recognize an old PX gearbox.

Can I use the old PX gearbox? You can use that, sure. However, the old PX gearbox has the disadvantage that it doesn't lock the gears as nicely as a Lusso gearbox. Therefore, when rebuilding an engine, I would always recommend using a Lusso gearbox. Due to what? Because I just can't distance it from both sides or because of what? It's a little gimmick that you can distance the Lusso gearbox from both sides, which you can't with the old PX gearbox. But a Lusso mainshaft has little slots here where the cruciform snaps into place with each gear.

And then it can't move sideways. So that holds the cruciform additionally in position. That means my third gear doesn't get kicked out so easily. That is always a problem that many people text me about.

"My third gear gets kicked out, what is the reason?" Exactly, it lasts a little longer with the Lusso. Here I have another special thing. This is a reinforced Benelli main shaft.

It's a little bit thicker at this point, right? It tends to flex less and runs a little more precisely. This also prevents gearbox damage. Or rather, it reduces the likelihood of gearbox damage.

What's important is a good quality cruciform. I recommend the SIP BFA cruciform, of course. But there are other good cruciforms, too.

Piaggio has fluctuating quality. Depending on where they buy, they are either among the best or among the worst. Unfortunately, the quality varies. Here it does not vary. Hitting the right hardness for a cruciform is a philosophy in itself.

It mustn't be too hard, so that it doesn't destroy the flanks of the gears. But it must not be too soft either, so that it does not wear out too quickly. I have ridden the SIP BFA cruciform a lot myself and have had good experiences with it, so I recommend it.

Is this main shaft a must or can I buy an original Lusso mainshaft and build the engine on that? Do I need this big one? You can buy an original Lusso mainshaft. For your setup that should be enough. The normal one we have in stock right now is actually very good. But to show it to the camera here would have been a bit boring. So I showed you the amplified version. Sure, we want to show what works! I think they are really good, I drive them myself.

I would say you go home now and think about all this stuff and what you need. Am I being kicked out now? No, no! You can stay for days for all I care. But for your next video, I would say you go home now and think about what you really need.

I think that's quite interesting for the viewers as well. Because it does go on at that point. Now I have shown Timo quite a lot of nice things and the question is: Which of these things does Timo really use in the end and how does it drive? But you can see that again on Timo's channel. Because when you're at home and you have the stuff there, you'll go on, right? Exactly, then I'll order a very big package and the next episode or the one after that for the PX Conversion will be the assembly. Would also be interesting to see if you guys also have a Quattrini and if you run the same or a similar setup. What is your experience with this setup? Maybe you have a jet recommendation for Timo.

You're not giving me one now, are you? No. Okay. Now we've got ourselves mixed up again, hey? Again and again. Yes, but this is important. Aren't you going to give me a jetting recommendation? No, I leave that to the viewers, besides, I just forgot. So: write your jet recommendations in the comments! And don't forget to watch the final build on Timo's channel "Blechgefährten". That will be super exciting!

Everything else you ever wanted to know about Vespa, you can watch here again. Hey! (laughs) So, like this video and press the bell! Timo, thank you! Thanks to you! I'll order everything when I'm at home and look forward to the parts. And then a big package is coming soon. Give my regards to Wolfenbüttel! Take care! Take care, bye! Everything you ever wanted to know about Vespa, only from us. (laughs) Lambretta from now on with Timo.

2021-09-11 11:38

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