Decarbonization and The Future of US Aviation
has been safe. And once we get out of this, I want to start flying in to start seeing my family discussing early on with the break. We Scots that a business will will start blossoming again. I think there's also an awareness that we want to do it more sustainably done in the past, and if we look at it in the context off climate change, we need to stop burning fossil fuels. So what are
the solutions available today to make it more sustainable? And what are the solutions in the future to continue being able to fly? So now is lacerated the opportunity. How are we going to go about doing this for the next couple of decades? Yeah, that's great. Such a great point. I mean, I think when you look at the aviation industry at their core, it's not about transportation. In my mind. It's about connecting people. And just to that point I mean, I look forward to the day When we can connect not only this way, but also in a real way, And I think that's the power of the aviation industry s O Mark, What's your take on on this topic? Yes. Thank you very much. Very happy to be with you this afternoon.
We are missing a very critical moment for this industry. First. Of course, it coded crisis is the most impacting the most civil crisis for aviation forever. Just some time. We can see the increasing pressure coming from the climate change on our business, right? Aditi on aviation.
So we absolutely need to recover from this crisis, Navy, Asian and the same time we have to manage as the most important transition in oyster way of our sector cough here, de carbonized aviation. Of course, first objective is to take over the crisis. The impact is huge. I think that's called, will say that Goes on their lines, but also on airports on el navigation services and underworld manufacturing industry and subtraction.
Tempers. We had to reduce our production by 40%. Finally with the river 560 60 this year, which is 34% less than last year. So, according to the plan, I have to say that we have been able to manage hand to hand with the customers. Crises and we are very thankful to them. We're also very credit food for the support of the government. But today this industry is really in a very poor joy's situation.
So we need to recover. This is not only for aviation industry as you said, uh, reassuring is very bottom possible inquiry of the global economy. You know, it's very important from trade. Off to his, um, my thinking in the USA. Uh, if you count all the
jobs supported by the aviation industry, the tourism and so on it's closed toe. 10 million jobs, and it's one point they brilliance of GDP, so it's very important for the economy but very important to the society. As you said, it's most of what connected people on day after this long road down, I think it's very important restudied change between states and between people and this is really V told for the stability and peace in the world. And so we We do think that there is a need for every issue, and there will be a rebound for forever plans to pasta, big crisis. We need that and we trust it will happen even if you could take some time, so even some years. But of course what we're expecting. Now is it? Vaccination campaign
can use a pandemic on we can we start to cover again? Great. Thank you, Mark so skied. What's your take? I mean, you're you know, major airline. Um, it's been 2020 spent like every other year, Right? I wish. Uh, look, thanks for hosting me, Tom on the
Atlantic Council, and I'll piggyback on what you said, because What we will find the same before final saying today will be in the future is that we're about uniting people and connecting the world. I believe firmly that we are social creatures and that we will get back to uniting people and connecting the world. But Jennifer said this has been aviation Army get We never contemplated anything like this. Even in our worst case, planning scenarios after 9 11 revenues were down 40% for two months, then months were kind of backed down 10%. We're still down 70% 10 months into this crisis united we've been in the last quarter burning $35 million a day and cash. That sounds horrific. I mean,
it is, but when this started back in March was $100 million. Just remarkable numbers to think about, and that's been catastrophic for airlines for boys, but his mark allude to also for economies around the world. You know there wasn't I'm not sure and appreciation. How many jobs and good paying jobs The aviation industry drives, not just directly with him in aviation. But if you go to Orlando, Las Vegas or the convention center in San Diego or anywhere, the number of jobs that are driven by connecting people and uniting the world I think the governments around the world particularly here in the U. S. For the support, the industry would have been devastated without support. Government support not only helped us gave us the time to go raise money in the private capital markets.
To make it through the crisis. And while we're gonna make it through the crisis, aviation will be changed forever. And one of the perhaps counterintuitive conclusions that I've reached, at least that relates to what we're talking about today. Is that sustainability has become more important than ever. And that's more clear now than it was before, And the reason is because there's no way Anyone can tell you with a straight face that were not part of a global community. And everything that happens everywhere in the globe is connected to everywhere else On B carbon ization is at the top of the list. It's not that I cared
passionately about for many, many years decades. Uh And I think that's more clear than ever. And so the commitment that we make not just in aviation but in the world to be carbon izing is going to be credible United. We're proud of
our leadership role. Coming into the pandemic. We represented over 50% of commercial aviation's worldwide commitments to purchasing idiot, sustainable aviation fuel on we just despite everything that's going on in the pandemic.
About a month ago announced that were participating in the world's largest director, capture and sequestration, Carbon sequestration program partnership with Occidental on 1.5. We'll talk about this. I'm sure at least I'm convinced there's no way we're gonna be carbonized the planet without that, Unless unless all the sudden fusion power becomes real, but absent that we're gonna have to have Sequestration. Yeah, well, I will definitely come back to that. Scott. I think that's an interest. Very great and interesting announcement
by y'all. I think I'm going to stay with you and I'll kind of work back. With this next question, and it's we are less than 24 hours away from having a new administration if you had your way from where he was sit in your industry. What are what policy changes Or would you want to see what one or two or three policy changes when you want to see to grow to allow for the carbon ization and to increase sustainable aviation fuel demand? So started he's gotten and we'll work toe Mark and mark for you. I know you're kind of based in Europe. We're
gonna ask you that kind of take those lessons learned and and tell us Americans what we should be doing so, But first we'll go to Scott. So first I'm gonna answer this question Citizen of the world instead of the CEO of United Airlines, because this might be different things, although since I am the CEO, I could choose to answer them in the same way. Um, And first, I think somewhere on I've spoken to a lot of people in the new administration. Um,
we need a way to put a price on carbon. Um Another saw this lesson. Put a price on carbon Um and then the government both carrots and sticks to do that, and you can't do it overnight. But you can do it gradually, so I think a price on carbon is important. And I think support for, um Sequestration. Other credit mechanisms, the only one that I know of its truly scalable At this point, it's sequestration s O government support for those that you can build the economies of scale drive the cost down. You know, I'm kind of talking about sequestration as an example for 20 or 30 years ago, everyone said solar and wind power and economic, But today they can compete, and that's because as you invest, and as you drive economies of scale and efficiencies, you can make those more efficient.
But we're gonna need government support to do those things in the near tournament and probably some kind of credits. Little I had to do that on a more tactical airline basis. One of my incredible frustrations for years has been the inefficient air traffic control system that we have today. We estimate that we could improve efficiency by 15%. But just using essentially GPS technology to fly instead of flying the highways in this guy that we fly today, and that cuts the time for customers that you're on the airplane. Makes the aircraft more efficient cuts emissions by 15%. It is a
win win. When across the board we've been unable to get Much progress done so in the shirt short term, the lowest hanging fruit is just Modernized air traffic control system and the longer term a price on carbon and support or industries that are de carbonized. I think it's gonna be crazy, right? That's great and for a virtual audience out there, don't forget to put your questions and we'll surely be able to get to those as we can. And I love the idea Scott about talking about carrots and sticks. Somebody has a market transformation. Background of my past. Big believer in both of those things is kind of ways to help motivate and move industries. Maybe we can talk about more about that later. So Mark I know your perspective is probably based on your but maybe there's some good lessons learned. Good advice you could give us as we think
about it. And as we kind of go into this next, this new administration that begins tomorrow. So what are some thoughts that You might have for us. Thank, you know, noted, no lesser for me off the universe. But what do we believe? At their best We wait Do believes that carbon television it's possible. We can't achieve achieve it in the last time.
I think that this vision is largely shared within this industry. What? What I just said the most read this. And if you look at the, you know, travel report this association like hoping on the Industry Airlines manufacturers Air Force it very, very, very, interestingly put Waypoint 2015. Showing Project Korea Global 2025 issue with 50 less emission in 2050 on the cutting board about not whole aviation in 2016.
Without offsetting. And we do support this project Ori and the temples. Of course, we can see that on short Cam, uh or whether you're dating the fleets with the last generation of your half. And I'd museum should buy 20 to 25%, which is when you step Of course, this Naval Aviation Shuler, We'll have our certified for 50% Inc of System Elimination. True, which means a pink like 40% less emission.
On. We are working on the, uh, potential one Pursuit Inc of System television for in the future. Get to wherever your correction between El navigation services and to go step further. We have the ambition of being they, the first manufacturer delivered a zero emission car after the risen 2030 years. We are working on free concept projects. A jumbo pop.
Uh, with Idaho. Jen, uh, build in gastro bean with range over 1000 logical minds and incapacity off 100 seats off so Job, a fan with a capacity that could go between 120 or 200, the range of 2000 logical minds. And blending with body so very innovative concept more flexibility for the stretcher off until what do we look at Idaho Jen because a lot of ways of sectors Including in transport Embassies. God off trucks shrinks for best rooms are looking for this. You know that we
if I don't Johnny is produced were renewable over very low carbon electricity. It can be footage a couple nights come on the toll it can be built in in against your baby. It can be used to produce electricity. Well, he says, You can also be CTO carbon capture to get her what you call issues. Uh, peach. When poetry kid so synthetic, your shoes that could fly in a little cart, so that is very low. I can one for
aviation. So we do believe that there there are solutions and shot their million term long term to put the carbonized and this is something that we we would like to deliver with all Ah, just think Cordell Innovation says that the next generation can continue to cry. As we do today, in perfect, respectively. Environment That's great. Thank you, Mark.
And Jeremy, you know you will have. Nestea has two of the largest of Nome or the largest refineries, alternative fuel refineries in the world. Rumor has it You may be thinking and looking at the U. S. But what's your perspective in terms of this question? What would you like to see from this administration to kind of incentivize grow that demand for sustainable aviation fuel? Thank you. I mean, firstly, I don't think there is a magic bullet to this. There's no there's no one single solution that is going to make flying more sustainable. And I think we need to. We need to
use all the available solutions out there. CCS can be one of them. But at the end of the day, we need to stop burning fossil fuels in planes. And it's great that that we have technology on the horizon. But there are tens of thousands of planes in India today, but I should be India today will be back in the air very shortly, and we are producing hundreds of new planes. Are they so for decades to come? The technology of choice will be to ban some kind of fuel, and therefore we have to ask ourselves. What do we want about it?
And sustainable aviation fuel is a fuel that is available today. It is still a niche market, but really scaling up rapidly. That's actually Tackles a lot of these questions. I mean, it does reduce emissions
by agent sent, and it works without changing any infrastructure. So I think having in place the policies that encourage using solutions that work today, while also recognizing that there might be solutions in the future is so important. So this em in the new administration when it comes in, could quite clearly make that choice. And maybe even in the
to be able to support the aviation industry come with, um direct support for promoting sustainable aviation fuels to the airlines so that the industry can recover. Mr S. I think that it doesn't. There's nothing's that incoming in this administration could directly do. That's great. Thank you, Jeremy. So, Jennifer, you've worked with past administrations and agencies within those To good effect. I'm sure there's been a little bit of frustration from time to time and working with some of those, But what is from your perspective? Atlanta attack What would you like to see one of the one or 23 things you'd like to see from? This new administration. A zoo relates to your sector.
Yes s O. I would say that it's extremely important to have incentives that enabled the production of general aviation fuel and those incentives need to help develop. Those fuels as they relate also to ground transportation. There needs to be an incremental incentive to enable them to go into the aviation sector rather than the easier to access road transport. So I see. The government will need to put some incentives in place.
The second thing I see and I think it's important for us to think about industry and how it will grow bigger. Bigger. Bigger is better, right? That's because petroleum is the densest liquid on earth. Right? And so you could move it to a central location and build a 200,000 barrels a day facility We're talking about waste resource is you cannot aggregate waste resource is you're not gonna move.
Biomass to a central location. You're not too large central location. MSW we use waste gas is you're not gonna aggregate with gas is so what I imagine is a distributed approach to the production of sustainable aviation fuels. That it doesn't exist today. The ability to make small modules the ability to three D print that a remote location all these things.
The only way you make that happen is if you build more. You build a lot of things, and as every technology evolves, it's an exponential growth and it goes up exponentially down the cost curve as well. So the government's need to help us replicate. They need to help us really get across the valley of death.
Build. The first one built a second one build the fourth one, and then this will take off and so Project finance and enabling project finance, whether that be direct grants or loan guarantees or other such things that enable us to build enough of these plans to get him down. The cost curve is the second really important factor.
And I think when we do that, we'll get to the same place Solar has right 10 years ago we were screaming about Solyndra and laughing about solar was never gonna be anything and here we are. That is what happens with new technology and we need to get sustainable aviation fuel to that point. And that's what I think government needs to help us. Do so maybe a follow up in this point, maybe also applies to Jeremy's You mentioned feedstocks. A critical part of this, But if you could just talk to us about, obviously you're looking at industrial waste gas is But I also think is you've gone into lands a jet. You're also looking at some other
waste opportunities. And so that question But then TOC Jeremy, you know, you all have made a very kind of public and notable transition. Uh, to kind of waste feedstocks. But what do you all see? Is the now solution in your respective companies and industry And what do you What do you see on the horizon in terms of availability of feedstocks? Yes. So, um what I what I see. So so for for those that don't know we use gasses. We convert gas is so it can be industrial waste gas is Government except hydrogen, carbon dioxide, gas ified municipal solid ways gas If I'd biomass, we can also take director capture and with electrolysis convert that so the box is big and so you see a sequence of technologies and the way I see the sequences.
Talk about putting stealing around? How many boxes of steel do you have to put in the ground to make Davey ation feel okay if its industrial waste gas like, just go directly and convert it If I have to put a gas a fire at ad cost If I had an electoral Isar to add more hydrogen, I accost. That's how I think about it. That's how I think about the sequencing of the feed stocks. How many boxes do I have to put in place to make the fuel? I believe that there is plenty of feed stock. My old job was all half a based right oils, waste oils. That's technology we developed. And there is a limit to that. But once we start getting into a solid weighs a mixed ways, there's no stopping you so feedstock will not be the problem You said about lance ticket. I talked about Lance attack
and defeat stocks we use but for land sick that we can use any ethanol. And there would I imagine is a more sustainable ethanol where The ethanol producer partners with the agriculture company and we start to work on As you create a lower see ethanol. The farmer also gets some credit. If they have better agriculture practice. They get credit. If they get different, lower carbon fertilizers. They get credit, so I see a
partnership between The producers and the farmers, creating a lower CI product by figuring out how to make the feed stock production more sustainable. There is so much room this is Sky's the limit. No pun intended like that. So, uh, Jeremy, I'm gonna add to this question because we got some questions along the way from one of our members from the virtual audience. Chris Mitchell E. And I think it relates to you all just questioning feedstocks. So if you could just kind of answer that question, But also, you know, the question we got from Chris is essentially Is there enough tallow, for example, to scale? I think it's a It's a fair question. I know
you all are involved in your plan in Singapore, looking at Australia and Telemarket there, But from your perspective, What are the feed stocks of today? Can they scale And one other feedstocks might have seen what might have seen the future. I agree with Jennifer Feedstock is 90. Yeah. Today mess they users use cooking all that, for example, we collect from the airports. And so we We used to use cooking oil from the airports and can convert them into fuels. But we also
looking to move into l. A gay We can use municipal solid waste for that. The gas is that come off it. We can also use forestry waste. Um so I I really think that if that if the policy direction well to have, like a direct support for aviation fuel, like a blend is tax credit for S F You would really start seeing them demand pick up and the supply would come online to match it. And so for the foreseeable future, I don't see a challenge with with the amount of feedstock on Di don't think we can look at feedstock at one feed stock at the time. Ah
used cooking oil or tallow or whatever. It's the pool of available feedstocks out there. There's a lot available. And then I think we also talked briefly about carbon credits earlier. I think what you see is that each industry has a different value on carbon Because it's it's so much more difficult to de carbonized aviation than it is my passenger vehicle s o. The passenger vehicle will very likely go electric person that will free up feed stocks for the harder to abate industries like the aviation sector. So so I think this defeat stock element. But then there's also how do you tackle these different sectors of the economy and and make sure that there's a support? They're like, Jennifer said. To build those box?
Is yes. So that you get that scale necessary. That's great. So I want to change things in and get over to Scott here for a second. So Scott United Airlines recently announced it was taking the very bold, very ambitious step of pledging to reduce its DHD emissions.
100% by 2050. I'd like to see you just kind of tell us about that. Why was now the right time for united to make this commitment and tell us how you plan to make that meet that goal? I'm assuming that's through sustainable aviation fuels as well as You know some of your more recent announcements on director capture, But maybe you just talk a little bit about both of those. Yeah. So, um
The timing was was really about. I mean, I don't mean apologize if this sounds egotistical, but this is something I've wanted to do for my first long my career as I could remember, I've been interested in Um, the environment believed that global warming was happening since the 19 eighties on day. I've always wanted to make a difference, and sometimes you've got to be the CEO to make a decision like this. S so I became the CEO and that that really is a time he was and what we tried to do was something unique on different than I know of any large corporation has done which is what we said. 100% Green We met 100% agree without using traditional carbon offset programs and One of the frustrations to me is that there's a lot of people in the world that we're talking about in the care about climate change, but they take the easy way out, which is writing a check for a traditional carbon offset program. And the truth is most of those many of those not maybe that most, but many of those aren't even real. You know, It's paying somebody
not cut down trees that were never gonna be cut down. But even if they are real, you know, a man made emissions are up 4000 times Since the industrial era begin, we cannot plant or 2000 times as many trees. It just won't work. If you're good at math, you know that the traditional art carbon offset program won't work and Don't think personally, and I've been following this for a long time again. I sort of said that the tongue in cheek but absent a breakthrough in fusion energy, it's really hard for me to do the math that you don't have to wind up with with some kind of carbon sequestration as a big part of the answer. Um And so we wanted more than anything, not just talk about what we're doing at United. We want to change the conversation on make
the conversation about real solutions that will really make a difference. Bond. That's why we focused on this partnership with Occidental in 1.5 nto move towards sequestration. I recognize it's not economic today. That is both Jeremy and Jennifer talked about. You gotta come down exponentially on those cost curves. S so we just wanted to start and we wanted to change the conversation more than just a commitment united and hope that that if we can be a part of getting the couple rolling down the hill, it could be done.
Could become an avalanche on guy actually changed the conversation that leads to real difference and meaningful change in the world. It's great, Scott. I'm gonna follow up with you on this and something that I kind of could relate to my time back in the Pentagon when we were going through the same generations, you know, buying more aircraft.
You knew you were gonna when you bought those aircraft they were gonna be in In operations for three decades or more on so meaning that you're gonna be in a liquid fuel business of some kind for quite a while, Which is why we really went after all sustainable aviation fuels or biofuels as we call them, then Um, So I guess the question for you and this may apply to the other other Panelists as well. But, you know, we're starting to see you know this kind of the focus from the electrification of the ground transportation and now you're starting to see these very nascent things looking at the aviation. What? Where do you see that? How you tracking that is that something you see in the 20 thirties 20 forties were somewhere beyond Is that something that's gonna necessarily be limited to things like short haul flights.
Just how is how is it you you always shoot? So the problem is interviewed entity. Um and you know, in the energy density jet fuel is triple that of hydrogen. Um, even if you could create green hydrogen, um, that requires a lot of energy for electrolysis to great green hydrogen.
It's one third the density of Jeff You'll, Um and so for long haul aviation on batteries require a technology that's not on even anyone's theoretical drawing board. Ever have have the energy density to power an aircraft. On long haul flights. I think they're probably going to be opportunities for small and short haul aircraft, but for the bulk of what we do, flying along, we're not gonna be able to fly a new airplane from San Francisco to bangle or with 300 people on board.
With hydrogen or batteries, unless there's some change and technology and that is not even on anyone's theoretical drawing board. It's farther out than fusion energy s. So I think we're gonna be flying airplanes for a long time, which is finding other things, which means finding other things.
Due to the carbonized this industry. Yeah, so it's kind of a similar question to market Airbus. I know you you all notably about 10 years or so ago started looking at this. Let's start doing some groundwork and In electric and hybrid electric propulsion. Where do you see things
in that regard in the same kind of question? 2030 20 forties is it is that you know is the potential there may be the answer. Scots Uh, respond, respond to Scott's view that we need some technological innovations that don't yet exist. So what's your? What's your thinking on that? What's good guys said is off course exact. So which mean that We just tattoos of the batteries today, it's difficult to imagine and a cop trying. We've only batteries except for little half turn on short haul.
Ah, and this is why we are turning now tried or Jim. This is towards assumes that as I said, off the time being, we can imagine the ranch off 2000 logical minds. So which is already is that Significant segment of the aviation sector, but probably for long haul aircraft. Women to firms up the blood pay technology to be able to We based fuel and this is why the Department of Civil Aviation Shoes or Puerto Rican fuel electronic control is important for this segment, because if it's possible to fly with these shoes already on existing aircraft for longer And but for the whole year after this is pushing, But do we really want to explore the solution of hydrogen for shop medium or Lovecraft and see if we can extend it toe? Longer Ranger in the picture, and and so this is why we have decided to develop boss to these on this segment. Because we think that this is something to explore. Such is very interesting.
You In the past, the energy sector was dominated by Ole on even the global economy. It's possible that in the future, I'd origin will be the minutes if we look at the plan developed by many, many countries in USA We can see that. I don't know. It could have very launched Austin, the energy production of transport in the near future, and I think we cannot miss this apartment eating. What if you should included in this plants?
And so this is why we really want to explore this were an innovative company and see what are the rights and Medusa can try with this technology, and it was said, I think that you're in need. There is no one solution. So probably is a different models. Different country. Different range will try with different solution trucks.
Actually got a card for foreign intervention and small, modest general aviation hydrogen into helium craft for four shot me your engine and technical fuel off. System relationship before for long range in image in town, and then we see what happens in the longer term. Right. So I've got a question. This is based on some what we were looking at to some degree during our time in the Pentagon. But this is really I think primarily for Mark and maybe Scott.
On, but if any of the palace But is he a sui, look at the performance characteristics of the aircraft using sustainable aviation fuel. Is there enough research out there? Is there a compelling case that shows Either efficiency gains from that, In addition to the obviously the great environmental gains we're getting from that, and GHT reductions on Ben also is, is the research sufficient as it relates to Um the, uh, the life of the engine. For example, I know the things that Airbus puts in its airplanes or engines coming from other vendors and united flying those flying airplanes that come from those vendors as well.
So what's the state of the research? Is this an area that could use some federal support here? So I'll turn it over to Scott first and mark well to the best of my knowledge. I'm quite comfortable, but it's sustainable aviation fuel in the engines and that it's not gonna impact and everything I've seen says it's not gonna impact the long term. I was thinking of a positive impact, actually, where you have fewer particular It's in the in the fuel that may Yeah, Cto ah longer lives. But I'm not aware of anything. That's ah positive outcome beyond the environmental benefits which are substantial and would obviously the reason to do it. But I least maybe marking cracking of this is a pond. Think of it as equivalent to running a new airplane with Depp Ueland no substantial difference with Meyer.
Yeah, Mark, And yes, I got going for him. Uh, so pungent ending. We have a limitation to 50%. Friends to we have to explore and there is obviously no no issue very good. Their fuel efficiency with a system television from up to 50%. Now we have clicks. Blore. If we can go for himself to one of the
present we think that should be possible on Sure, And you know that different past ways. So we have to study the different shoes. There is another thing we have to explore, which is a non suit to impact. And how similar position sure can also induced announce you to effect off of aviation. This is a demand that means a fresher scientifics. Today's but this will be very interesting to look at this.
And here again, we can even see benefit. The one from the city will be shin ship. We do hope that if we don't so he'd use the nose to between packed baby issues. So what a lot of hope for the user's simulation. True paralysis. You need to go from 50% 1 of what Sent that we don't know to what I hear. He uses vases between revolution. Great. Thanks, Mark. So, Jennifer, you feel free to come in on that
last question, but also you mentioned before, and maybe I brought it up first. But you know, you have had a pretty busy year pretty busy six months, even though we've been in this Armageddon, as you said. But curious. You know what is landed lands a jet that you you you've
created. What is that? Allowing you to do that? You couldn't do his lens attack. If you just talk to us a little bit about Kind of why that was the right move to make last year. And what do you see going forward for landed yet? System. Um, let me address the
engines issue because when I think about sustainable aviation fuels, I don't just think about greenhouse gas reductions This feels don't have sold for Particular so significantly less. We did quite a bit of work with inner see in Canada, showing no contrails. Well, a big reduction in country ALS. I shouldn't say no. These things
are really, really important if you live near an airport They're really important. And so they augment the social justice issue on Dee's things are available. Now these benefits are available. Now. I always think of sustainable aviation fuel as not a blending component, but an uplifting component to conventional kerosene, and I think that's a factor. We miss. Um
Going back to why we formed lands a jet. So it would have been just easy to keep land secured inside Lance attack, but apart from the fact is very different technology. I really feel that one. We have to bend the curve very quickly, right. We can't
just be looking at all of these things. They're long term and not bend the curve now. The longer it takes to bend the curve, the harder it's going to be to have a real impact. And I think sustainable aviation fuel is a key way to bend the carbon curve and a key way to do something in the aviation industry now and so, what I wanted to do is we've already demonstrated with already flown flight with Virgin Atlantic. We had a delivery flight with an A What I wanted to do is build a 10 million gallons a year plant to produce a safe as quickly as possible. And I felt that by creating
an organization outside of lands attack that it was his own organization. It could do that. The second thing I did was But we took investment a little different. There are lots of people who are willing to invest to help us build a first demo. But that wasn't good enough what I wanted, where investors that were committed to the first plan and to building the first commercial If the K P eyes were met, they would go ahead and investing in spv in a local jurisdiction that they had. But in addition, they were
going to do the development of the plant. The environmental permits all of the things that take 2 to 3 years in parallel with us building that demo that 10 million gallon of your plant, so by putting all of that in an organization We were able to create much more momentum than if this was just a part of lance attack. I also wanted land subject to access other ethanol's. We're not the only ones to produce sustainable ethanol, and I wanted to give them that opportunity. Because creating that market right you start to pull other technologies also in the feedstock side. So that's why we did that. We want to go fast. They're gonna go really,
really fast and I've been building plan says, you know. For a long, long time. And I figured, you know, leveraged that knowledge to figure out how to go faster, faster, faster. That's great.
So, Jeremy question for you and you know, I guess you know, kind of coming back to where we were just any other policy things that you would like to see. To get since Daniel Aviation fuel to take off no pun intended. But what else do you see whether it's from the government? The federal government local on? I'm curious if you have any thoughts about The role of airports, airport authorities. Obviously we've got a
great cross section of folks here representing the industry. You know the airports is too kind of Jennifer's point is where You know, Um, you know that see a lot of those emissions kind of firsthand, and I'm just curious if you have any thoughts about what they could do in terms of carrots and sticks, an infrastructure that would support you in your industry. Well, I think first. I think it's also still important to recognize the efforts that the airlines and the airplane manufacturers have been making in making flying more sustainable over the years, and companies like like United had been at the forefront of this for a long time. So it's also listening to what all the apartments in this ecosystem want. What what did what did their communities want? That are neddy airports. What? What is needed by the airlines to make it more sustainable.
So there are many policies that can help in that in that regard, I think Scott mentioned carrots and sticks s so what? What are the carrots? Like, um like a, um, essay if blenders tax credit that that can reduce the price on the wrong hands, and what is the one that makes the playing field more equal for everyone. So is there is a need to either put a price on carbon or to put a amount of volume that needs to be in corporate, So I think that many different policy Choices out there that can that can be followed. It is really finding something that most people feel will really help to ridiculous problem and I think, maybe also to the earlier discussion about about a safe The first thing that springs to mind is safety over the fuel for all those folks for the Plains and the passengers that go on it second thing that will focus on his then the sustainability off the fuel, and this this overnight reduces greenhouse gas emissions by up to 80%. Then also think about the difference in the production. We produced these at a facility which is dedicated to making sustainable fuels, as opposed to the emissions that come off of oil or patrol and we find me.
In terms of the local emissions in the communities. This makes a big difference as well. And so I think, in many aspects to this problem, So Scott, maybe to you about this question about airports in airport authorities. I know is this a question of where the airports and can lead the way or is it gonna take Um somebody like you and united T o help. Move them along is where do you see what? Where do you see the role of airports in this equation? I think that airport swirly broadly very supportive, but likely supportive in the sense that it's because the airlines are asking them to do something. Hurdles are
on our side and on people like Jennifer and Jeremy. They're creating the same sustainable aviation fuels. Yeah, The best of my knowledge would use the same infrastructure to get it there that we already have today. And because of that the
airports will be supportive of anything that we asked him to do, but Prime, not the right constituent to try toe leave the effort to be hard for them to leave the effort a supposed to getting Airlines toe lead it with partnerships with people that are producing actual as a F K. Well, I've got a question for you from a former United employee and a good friend, Our old friend of mine from the days uh, when I was in the Pentagon, and he was at united, Jimmy, Smart sisters now CEO of Lands, Jack, bring everything full circle, but me for the group. Um, what guidance do you have? So we'll go in order will stop. Start with you, Scott. Um, what guidance do you have for others to help overcome break down barriers and an able progress. Um, look, I think we have to have honest conversations on da, Honest conversations, maids not papering over the problem with it as an example with traditional carbon offsets.
It means accepting that we're gonna need government support and credits to bend the cost cover on the cities. And it probably means that even when we bend the cost curve, some of these are going To be more expensive, and that's an appropriate price to pay. It's the same as putting a price on carbon that, you know we can't have everything in a consumer society that we've had in the past and expected that cost the same. It's going to cost something to deal with the problem, but I think more than anything we need to have start having honest conversations about what real solutions. Ours doesn't just apply to aviation sustainable aviation
fuels. Enterprise toe, be carbonized in the whole economy and arresting increasing global temperatures. Without honest conversations. We're never gonna get to the real answers. That's great. So mark with Airbus. What? What you know, saying similar quite on the same question, all this phrase a different way. What's the
For you. And for Airbus, What's the most important factor? That you would attribute your Airbus's success in your Dick organization efforts. Uh, we said at the very beginning and there is a need for, uh Asking of sheep and leadership on both. Industry on the immigration and governments. This is a really a very important
position, and we need to work altogether. That topic. Off course, a dam bursts. We are fails dedicated to Welcome a new technologies provoke idea, General capital so even possibly television. Sure we need to develop Have that one act at one of the person. It's just number that I'm you shouldn't you bled? And so this is where we are there looking or if it is, but really, we need to work together.
Partnership between the government and industry is good to see. A Zoe can see today from their lives and some would you serve also taking the leader. Of course, we want to want to take the leader on the technology. Sanded off this industry and altogether with the different solutions to achieve a political one eyes abolition with terrorism 2050 50 60. So this is where you want me to work Hand in hand.
End off course in this we need all sorts of shit. Part of the states to incentivize is condition. I think the thank you consider has made the next Don't report in the colon.
Last year, and then you productions. It has come to light, but I think we need also signal from the state. They want to go in this direction and they want to support in distress going in in in in this direction, Good partnership. Developing, supporting the development of technology. On one side,
there were things that is very the Department of Correction of television and for their own also developing between traffic management. There is a lot already achieved in the U. S with experiment one that this is a memory or super. It's great. Thank you. So, Jeremy, I want you to take this question. What's that most important factor for Nestea? But I also I think you know, nest is journey here has been really interesting and admirable. You've
been Anesi for many, many years. I wonder if you could also in addition to what's that most important factor, But maybe talk about that transition from the three stocks that you used to use to those that you're focusing on now? I mean, what was that transformation like and in the company? Um yep, already? Yeah. I've had the pleasure of working for Miss Stay for nearly 20 years on and on when I think when I first heard about renewable fuels within the state Was skeptical. Um, but and I was skeptical, but that didn't quite understand it. But as as you as you learn more and more bad to do you realize that actually, this is this is a solution that makes sense. It uses the first rupture and technology available. Yes. You start off with
the easier oil schools, the vegetable oils that are out there and as you learn You use more and more difficult oils, And by that, I mean, you're going to waste and residues and then you start exploring. How can you use Allegheny musical? Solid waste? I can use forestry waste so actually, then you very rapidly discovered that Hey, this solution is really And then you've got you've got a road map for how do you make this pool border and deeper? And how can you really commercialize this? And we really at that point now where with the airlines with the airport with the consumers that I wanting this as well with regulators and governments? She will make the descent toe push. We can make this really take off and we just need to have that additional incentive for that. That
additional vision T really have a safe and some of these other fuels start coming into the marketplace now, so I think the transformation has bean from Hey, how do we do this in simple way? How do we scale it up? How do we make it more complex? How do we get more actors on board? So it's been a really amazing journey so far. Yeah, that's great. So so I'm gonna come to Jennifer. Feel free to take this on there came from Jimmy. You know, it seems a little inside. No, no Feel free to answer that, But I also want to kind
of bring us back to The kind of the government side because I think lands attack has a has Ah, you know a really good record there and I want you right, maybe comment on the government's role in picking winners and losers and And what? That what a level playing field looks like and s O. This kind of gets us back tol that kind of government government policy piece and what the role of government is, and I think you've got it. I'm sure it's a front row view of what that looks like. Yeah, that's a set up because you and I have talked about that. So you hear I'll hear a little bit of the things you and I have have chatted about, you know? It's really important that we realized that disruptive technology is super important in creating the change that we need to create and disruptive technology is not something that we can think about legislating today. So if the market I'm sorry, if if the governments Good incentives for legislation that incentivizes by technology rather than by outcome. What it will do is it will literally slow down the
new ideas. All that does this favor incumbents and so we're missing out and this is something actually lends attack went through, right? We we did gas fermentation. Industrial waste gas is that we're going to go out a CEO to and Converting those two ethanol was that bio or wasn't that bio and bio gets an incentive, so the weekend and incentive or not, And so I really think Legislation has to be technology neutral. It has to be based solely on outcomes, and that is how we will create the next wave of technologies. And as all of the speakers have said, quite frankly, what we need is every solution to have a seat at the table. Any solution that can contribute should have a role to play. The market will eventually
decide they'll eventually pick the winners and losers. The government should not Yeah, No, that's that's great. Um, but we've got three minutes left. I think we're still in. If there's more questions that come in, we'll gladly take those. But in this time may be coming back. TOC got if
you could. Tell us discuss a bit more about what's what we might see in the future from United. I mean, you all have made some pretty amazing progress here over the years and Um, you know, I think you gave a little bit of mentioned about your air capture technology. Eric Carbon capture technology that you're employing, but just kind of give us some kind of concluding thoughts and what you see, and then we'll go down the list here of other folks as well and asked a similar question. It's been great being on the panel on board area. Jennifer might have some follows for U S. I look forward to
that. But You know, I think what you'll see it. United is a real commitment where I told people that when the Wall Street Journal when I retire someday and they write a good article about me, but I I hope that the number one thing that they say I believe actually number one thing that they will say about my career was the announcement we made back in December or 100% great. Because it's the starting point. You know, it's a pebble Today
of it can become an avalanche and already said this once, but it's the starting point. They can get the ball rolling. And you know what is unique it United is We have a broader platform that many people I can talk to a lot of people in D. C. You know, I can't talk to any reporter on Beacon talk about this and start changing the conversation. And so we're gonna continue to invest in Sustainable aviation fuel support the development of sustainable aviation fuels but supporting a broader efforts to address carbon across the whole climate and the whole economy on gonna be focused on doing the right thing, not what's good for marketing. We could spend a lot less money
and get the same marketing bang for our buck in the short term. Then we're spending on director capture. For example, we're gonna focus on doing the right thing and hope that that leadership role gets others to follow, and that's what I'll truly be proud of way actually helped start a revolution.
That's good, Very inspiring. So, Mark, how about 20 seconds were down to our last minute ending Any last thoughts, Mart? Yes. Thank you very much saying No, we're not actually the last a sentence, but I'm very happy to to see this commitment in the U. S on the system
alleviation. Sure. And of course we We want to support this. He's a certification of us have to fly in the U. S. Was the motivation for you to be innovative and support. I heard this condition to a dick organized aviation in the US and it's very, very I'm correcting to see such big airlines as they the US allies and this very innovative producers off system, urination, Truth toe work together up to that evil solution for the future of aviation.
Right. Thank you. That's we're down to 10 seconds. We have committed to continuing to invest in sustainable aviation fuel and helping the airlines fly more sustainably. Right? Well, thank you so much. Uh, Jennifer, I think we'll go with your
previous comments is your complete ones were kind of out of time here, but it's gonna think everybody think that The palace is I think I referred to them before they're really titans in their industry. The thought leaders I am so thoroughly impressed with each and every one of you what you do, Um and it gives us I think all confidence That D carbon is the carbon izing the aviation sectors within our grasp. I know it's not gonna be easy, big challenges ahead. But I think I made with the people that are on this panel gives me hope gives me confidence that we're going to get there. So thank you all. Thank you all to the
virtual audience as well. Randi Bell. I believe as On here, and I'm gonna turn it over to my friend Randy. Thank you. Jennifer, Jeremy Scott. Mark Tom really appreciate this conversation really important discussion about a challenge that we have the opportunity to address right now. One of the key themes of the global energy agenda report that we launched this morning was that we need to realize the opportunities created by covert 19 to make the energy system more sustainable.
Aviation is a key opportunity, and I hope the Atlantic Council continue to work with all of our colleagues, those on the panel and elsewhere working on this issue to make progress this year. Ah, couple of things that that I heard a call for a carbon tax really focused on being technology neutral looking for outcomes, not winners, not picking winners. I think across the board of the energy system that's important point that we're focused on emissions reduction, not picking one technology winner over another. That's going to be the fastest way to get there s Oh, really? And I think Jennifer for making that point in particular that was the end of our first block of programming for the 2021 Global Energy Forum. And what a fantastic start we've heard from colleagues in the U.
A e doctor sold Donald Jobber who talked about how the U. S is approaching climate change while still being a major oil and gas producer. We just heard about aviation, sustainable aviation. We heard about the Abraham accords we learned about other really cool new technologies. That could reshape the energy system. So a lot that we've accomplished just today. We now have a breaking programming. When we return return
this evening will be will be moving to Asia. Covering everything from nuclear energy to innovation. Ecosystems to how Asians Asians own energy transition is continuing to evolve s. Oh, please stay tuned for that on Ben. Tomorrow. We also have
some very special inauguration programming. I hope you can tune into that. We have a panel right before the inauguration, looking at how America should approach the new administration. What it means for the new administration means
for The world and for the U. S. Is role in it both from a foreign policy and an energy perspective. Then you can watch the inauguration with the Atlantic Council through the APP. Capricia Marshall, who was the former head of protocol for the United States will be moderating or discussing what's going on during the inauguration. How this differs from previous inaugurations. It's going to be a very different different scene than we have seen over the past. Many, many inaugurations on Ben finally will have
a rapid response panel with energy leaders and global leaders. Really, from around the world right after the inauguration of what I think, what? How are they thinking about what just happened? So anyway, we're signing off for now. We will see you soon for what will be breakfast time in Beijing. Thank you all so much for joining us for
the first part of our programming.