Geospatial Forum: Dr. Jelena Vukomanovic
We're going to start, I believe this is our second, forum. For the Center, for geospatial, analytics, for. This academic year so. I'm Erin hip I live, down the hall here gives, me a great pleasure to, introduce my. Colleague Jelena. Boo c'mon bitch I, was actually on the committee that helped hire, this. Shows great taste. It's. Nice to see this come full circle so, a few things about Jelena, her, PhD is in arid, lands Resources, Sciences, from the University, of Arizona. Then her postdoc is from University. Of Colorado Boulder in. Arctic. And Alpine, research. And then. Her talk today is going to be about John's Island South Carolina so I told her she's got most, the biomes covered at this point and so, come ten year I expect another three biomes what's left yeah. For those who don't know Jana is a big part of our women, in stem and equity, and work. Within. The college certainly but also across the University, and with in geospatial analytics, really, across the nation, so. Yeah it's been great working, with Jelena the last piece of information on her she signs her emails to me probably all of you JD and that was my grandfather's, name every, time. Thank. You Erin. And, thank you all for being here today I'm, especially, happy to, be. Talking about this research, at. A geospatial forum. Because, the work of so many people, at, CGA, and the center and, the College of Natural Resources has. Been really instrumental, in. Bringing this together and I. Might run out of breath because I'm fighting. For lung capacity. So. I just like to start by thanking our. Team, probably. A lot of familiar faces on. This screen and. In particular, dr. Aaron cells who's, been a tremendous. Collaborator. And, or to, me through, this process so, I'm. Really happy to see that there's lots. Of people in the audience who, spend a lot of their time thinking about modeling, and geospatial. Analytics. But. That we also have people here who spend, a lot. Of their time thinking about how, to talk to people and engage stakeholders, so. That's fantastic. So. Let's just, jump right in and hear, participatory. Is not, just a term it's a promise, so, I will, ask you what, is a model. Not. Everyone, at Watts. Great. Yeah. So some kind of simplified. Version, of reality anyone. Else. This. Might make good cause question, so. So. Yeah it's a, simplified. Conceptualization. Of reality, people. Do use the term model, to describe all. Kinds, of things including mental, mapping I'll. Be using them more to describe visit the simplified, conceptualization. Of more physical, entities. All. Right so why. Do we engage with models why, do so many of us here spend so much of our day building. And using models. How. Do they do that. Information. About. What might happen in the future or inflation. Great. So. A few other things models. Can help us conceptualize. Really. Complex. Interactive. Processes. They, can give us a fuller understanding of. Current, conditions, and, like Stacy said can help us understand. What the future might look like, they. Can let us test alternative. Futures, without. Messing, with people, or. The environment, and. I think just as importantly, the process of, modeling, allow, forces. Us to really consider, consider. Carefully the parameters, that go into the model. So. Models. Are amazing, they help us do. Amazing. Things. But. I'd like you to stop and think for a moment about. The, big picture problems. Or, the grand challenges, that your. Work is helping, to address so. You know the things that get you up in the morning, and, when, you're thinking of this big picture problem. Consider. Also, what. Is it that hinders. The. Implementation. Of effective. Long, lasting, solutions, where. Do we run into bottlenecks. Or problems when it comes to solutions, to these big problems, and. These problems could be something, like managing. Large-scale, disturbance, like wildfire. Climate, change adaptation. Promoting. Health whatever. They might be. So. I'd wager that, even, though we all spent many. Of us did a lot of our time with modeling, what's. Really hindering. Sustainability. Solutions. It's, not really. Processing. Power or. Bigger. Data sets or bigger. And badder models, I think. If you, consider the problems, you're trying to address. The. Real, challenge. That hinders. The. Implementation. Of solutions is, how people are armed. Far more likely are not involved, in the process. So. Let's give some other people a chance to show us why. Do we need to involve people in research. Yeah. Great. Yeah. You. Get to learn more than what you already know yeah. Anyone. Else. Great. Yeah. Unless. We know they know what.
Okay. Sure. Anyone. Else. Often. Times we need to talk to people just to even understand, the problem, we're, trying to address. We. Need to understand. People's, values, and preferences, to come up with. Alternate. Alternatives. So. That when we when, it comes to decision making we're evaluating, things. That make sense, and, then we need them to tell, us about the acceptability, of different, trade-offs. And. Finally. If, people aren't involved it's, much less, likely that they'll be buy-in when, it comes to management. So. Participatory. Research as. I'm going to discuss it here, really. Moves beyond, extractive. Uses. So it's beyond, you. Know collecting. Knowledge values, and, preferences, from people and then, passing, that information, on to experts, if, a, participatory. Research framework. Really, hinges. On, involving. People in formulating. Research questions. And. Being, involved in, developing. The methods. And. Ultimately, having, a say in how those results are used in decision-making. So. That's, what we're aspiring. To and there's, a growing body of work that shows that. Research. And management that uses participatory. Methods has. Improved. Buying. And. Produces. Actionable, results, so. That. Being said it, can't just be buzzwords, it can't be something in the last paragraph of your discussion. Participatory. Research really. Is. Predicated, on genuine, cooperation. Engagement. And. Multi. Way learning of everyone involved. And. This. Is starting to resonate we've, seen over, the last 20, years that there's been a, rapid. Increase in participatory. Research. And, more, people are recognizing the, importance of involving stakeholders. But. What we see in this very little increase. In participatory. Modeling. Or the, use of geospatial tools. So, before. We delve deeper. Into the benefits of, participatory. Modeling. I'd, like to tell you a little bit more about a place. And, a project, that's become very, special, to me that I think will help ground, our. Discussion, beyond, the theoretical. But. Do keep these two things in mind as we're talking you, know the power of models, and the. Importance, of involving, stakeholders, in. The research process. So. Like. Erin, mentioned I'd, like to take you to the, low country, of coastal. South Carolina. Just, south, of the historic, city of Charleston, we find Johns Island, Jones. Island is the fourth largest island, on. The eastern, seaboard, and. Traditionally, supported food. And timber production. It's. A. Beautiful. Place, it's, surrounded by barrier, islands. Maritime, forests, and expansive, wetlands, and marshes, and. It's also home to some, iconic, landscapes. And forms, like, these moss, covered, live. Oaks that form these beautiful, oak alley. Canopy. Roads, and. Jones Island has a very, rich civil, rights history. So. It was one of the places where citizenship. Citizenship. Schools were pioneered. And. In the picture you see there that. Van was used to, transport.
People. To citizenship. Schools. To. Improve literacy and, then allow them to. Be able to register to vote and. That pay is currently, in the distance, not that you printing, you, african-american, history museum and. The man you see up front is, Esau Jenkins, and, you've been very fortunate, that his, son and grandson have, been two of our most, involved, stakeholders throughout. This process. So. Like so many of our coastal areas, Jones, Island is under growing rapid, change. Its. There's. Very rapid, population, growth and, residential, development and. Charleston, County adds about 48, new people every day it's. Also, called the low country, for a reason so, the highest point on John's Island is, six meters in elevation. So. Sea level rise is. A great concern and. You. Can hopefully. You can see so. This Crescent, here is John's Island. We. Don't see quite as much land loss as we see in some of these, southern. Barrier, islands, but, what we do see is that many of our wetlands, are becoming open water. And. This problem is compounded because, all. Of that residential, development, also leads, to. Fill draining, and filling of wetlands, which has a major impact on regulatory, services, and the coastal food web, and. Finally. Tourism. Is a major draw, is. A major economic. Driver, in Charleston. County, and. It seems that a very specific. Image. Is what draws people these. Kind of antebellum. Plantation style. Homes, and. A very, specific. History, of the region and. Why that matters is that it influences, what gets listed and, protected, and what gets bulldozed for, new development. So. We had the, great fortune to connect with two local. Nonprofit. Organizations. That have worked for, a long time on John's Island and have deep roots in the community the. Low Country Land Trust and the Center for property. Preservation. And. They in turn connected. Us with community. Leaders like the Jenkins, fam. And other citizens, groups of long-term residents, and. These. Residents, feel. Desperately. Left. Out of the decision-making process. On their Island and, really helpless in the, face of change, that's. Happening, and so, what they wanted from us I'd, say was really two things. Information. Especially. Data. Products. And visuals. And. Legitimacy, so, they wanted the credentials. And the science, that, being affiliated with a, university brings. As. They continue, their. Fight. So. After. Say. About eight months of conversations. And multiple, field visits. We. Had our first, workshop. On John's Island, when, you that we had to start by learning, what, was important, on John's, Island to long-term residents, and why. So. In our first workshop we, mapped the cultural, and natural resources, as. Identified. By residents. But. We knew if we wanted to address. Their concerns about, change. And. Risk, about, the future, and. Risk we, have to look to the future and, so, we had to turn to models. We. Use the futures model, which you. Know a great many of. You are very familiar with, but. For those who are futures. Is a stochastic, process based. Models, that, essentially, tells us where development, might occur in the future, and. We spent a great deal of time with our stakeholders. Talking, about the model in general, and. Going over some of the inputs, that go into it so, population. Projections. Past. Development. Environmental. And infrastructure. Constraints. To, development. And, we also discussed how we had observed the model to perform in their region so we'd, observed that you know development, was more likely near roads.
In Coastal, areas and that, agricultural. Areas tended to be developed, first, and. This was an important, step, because. They had it created, a lot of legitimacy. For the model in our process. Since. It mirrored what they were seeing themselves. So, start. We showed our, stakeholders. A a. Still. A. 50-year. Simulation. Of development. We, knew this was just a starting, point so, the inputs, into the model or a fairly, coarse and like. The black. That you can see popping. Up is projected. New development. And. As you can see it tends to follow, the existing, roads quite, closely. And though and in addition, to that single stochastic. Run we, also show. Them a composite. Of 50 iterations. Of the model, and. Highlighted. Areas where there was good agreement, between, these. 50 models runs, of places that were most likely to be developed, which are the places in the darker, red so, the darker the red the better agreement between the models that this was a place that was likely to be developed. And. Then we overlaid, those. Natural. And cultural resources. The. Places that were important, to them over. This development, surface, to. Get a sense of the, risk to the places they valued. And. Then we gathered, around. Screens. And, 3d, renderings, of the, of. The, island in both, small groups and then all together and, we talked about these results, and. How they felt about the model and the results, that they were seeing, we. Talked about how about. 75%. Of the places they had identified as. Important. Or at medium, to, medium high risk of development, in the, next 50 years, and, we also talked, about what. What, were they losing because. Of this development, what land, cover types were being, lost to make, way for new subdivisions. As. You can see. This. Doesn't work here. There's, significant. Loss across, all of our land cover types but. It was especially. Disheartening. To see the loss of pasture, and. AG. Fields because, they'd. Already lost so much of that land type it was already such, a small part of the island. The. Reactions, to these results, I think fell into two camps a smaller. Group. Are, pessimistic, we're, surprised, it wasn't worse they, thought you know everything, would be gone and. The whole island, would really be one giant subdivision. But. I'd say for the majority of our participants they. Expressed a lot of feelings, of loss, they're really devastated. By. The change that they saw coming. And. And. A, lot of the feelings of loss that they expressed, were really connected, to. Things that we actually hadn't, mapped very well so. The, those. Agricultural. Fields, and forest. Patches, which. Didn't come up in our mapping exercise, were really important, to them and. So these. Kind of diffuse, resources. There's. A lot loss in there and that. They can be really hard to map because. It wasn't a specific field, that was important, to them it was that the rural nature of, the, island to be preserved. And, then wind it all a little bit of an optimistic note talking. About what are the some of the things we could do about this what our conservation. Mechanisms, that might be put in place to protect these places that they love. And. Then in our third workshop which was just a few weeks ago, we. Delve deeper, into understanding, their. Priorities. And preferences, for conservation. This. Was driven, in large part to the, needs of our community, partners and. How. They can best use their resources to. Protect places on John's Island, so. They were really interested, in learning about people's, preferences. For. Permanent, versus, temporary, mechanisms. So, that time, or, duration, constraint, as. Well as whether people, had a priority, for preserving, natural. Landscapes. Or working, landscapes. So. A permanent, mechanism might be something like a purchase, or conservation, easement, whereas. A temporary, mechanism. Would be something like a contract. Or a management, agreement for a set duration of time. Natural. Landscapes, we defined, as something. Whose places. Whose, primary, purpose is to protect. Or promote ecosystem. Function. So. Something like wetlands, and working.
Landscapes, Were, agriculture. And working, forests. I'd. Say the highlight, of the third workshop was. A mapping. Exercise where we our stakeholders. Develop. A management plan with a finite, set of resources. So. They will had 10 credits, and they, could use them to buy whatever, combination of, conservation. Mechanisms. They wanted and of, course we were very interested, to know where. The. Spatial distribution of these preferences. So. Here are two examples in. Our first. Example. Over, here this. Person selected, five, temporary. Mechanisms. All on, working, lands which. We knew, from our second workshop were very important, and, it looks like they've placed them except, for one, exclusively. On forest patches on the southern side of the island. In. The second example this person chose the kind of more diversified. Portfolio. Of conservation. There's one permanent. Mechanism to. Protect natural landscapes, and to, temporary, mechanisms. One. Natural, and one, working landscapes, for. How they would spend their credits I, think this will help us improve our modeling efforts but it's also very helpful for our community, partners, so. That as they're prioritizing. How they spend their funds they. Can focus on things that will have the greatest amount, of community support and I, wish I had some present preliminary results from here but we, don't quite yet. So, if we think back to our. Are, two elements the. Importance. Of involving people in research and decision making. And. The power of geospatial. Models. And tools. To. Understand. And conceptualize. Dynamic. Internet. Interactive. Processes. We. Can start to think about some. Generalizable. Lessons, of the. Benefits, of geospatial, participatory. Modeling, and. We've, identified three. Big-picture. Tenets. Or. Benefits, of geospatial, participatory. Modeling. That relate to. Sense. Of place. Spatial. Interaction and, spatial scale. So. I'm. Sure this will be sound, familiar you, know for many of the, big. Problems, that we're working to. Address. They're, often ubiquitous, problems, that's why they're grand challenges, so, it's something that's a general, concern, to many people. But. Even things that are general, concern, can seem distant. Or. Even trivial to, a particular, community so one, of the benefits of geospatial. Modeling. Is that, it can immediately make, something. That is abstract. Very. Personal. By, visualizing. It in a place that is, important. To, a person to, an individual, somewhere. That represents, where they actually live, and work. So. Geospatial. Models. And visualizations. Can. Improve share connection, over a communal, landscape. And, when, that landscape. Is personally. Valuable, to someone it. Can help advance information. Transfer, social. Learning and. Idea, exchange, so. These tools can help make, these. Spatial tools can make something. Immediately. Personable, to. The people involved so. I've. Already mentioned some of these feelings of loss people expressed. When. They saw the development models. I, think probably, the most salient. Example. That. We experienced. During our, work on John's Island actually, happened when we showed the. Sea level rise projections which. Rush. A little bit of an afterthought, but. Proves, very prove. Very important. So, you know sea level rise in, a coastal area is. Something that is of general concern it's something that our stakeholders, were aware. Of but. It was also something that was maybe in the, future it was a little bit distant. But, when we gathered you know especially around these 3d, renderings, of the drawing, close. Up and, individual. Stakeholders. Were able to see their, homes places. Where they live and work underwater. It, immediately became very. Personal. And. It. Was an, impactful, experience, for us seeing that, anxiety and worry with people. As. They were considering, their future, and. Their, homes, so. You. Know, it's. A very, clear. Way, the, making something spatial, makes it personal, and. Even though it was a very emotionally.
Charged, Experience. It. Had the, unexpected. Benefit, a very organically. Promoting, a conversation. About, models. Like what they can and can't show us how, much uncertainty they have, which. Was ultimately, very helpful, for. Our efforts. I. Think we all had a little bit of this experience, last week, this. Phenomenon, of the spatial making, something personal, with hurricane, Florence. Seemed. Everywhere, I looked early last week people kind of glued to their phones and their screens tracking. The progress of, of. The storm and you know visualizing. The impact, of, of. Visualizing. The potential, impact for, themselves or the, people they loved of this storm. But beyond teach it you know before, beyond, exemplifying, the fact that the spatial can make it personal, our experience. With Florence also, I think taught us that what happens in one place affect. Another, so. Tens, of thousands, of people from coastal counties, were forced, to evacuate, during. Florence, and. At the height an estimated. 17,000. North Carolinians, were living in. Temporary and, temporary, shelters including, right. Here at Raleigh and. So even though we, were Raleigh, was very, minimally, impacted, by the storm what, we saw by this migration. Of people is that what happens in one place can, affect enough. And geospatial models. Can make these. Connections. Explicit, and resolve abstractions. And by, visualizing. These. Connections, between one place and another can. Catalyze, new understandings. Of connectedness. And. This. Realization. That. Place. And spatial, and. The. Place and process, are connected. Can. Be a real revelation, for, stakeholders. So. The. For. Me the example in John's Island that really sticks out, involves. One of our community, partners, who. Was then the director of, conservation for, the Lowcountry Land Trust, so, Garrett. Was super, into the, geospatial simulations. And he, spent a lot of time with, us poring over them and looking at the results, in addition. To the business-as-usual, scenario that. You're seeing here we. Also showed him to infill scenarios, and. He. Had this aha moment like you could almost see it a light bulb go off over, his head, because. By. Restricting development. In one place, but. Not changing, the demand it moves, the development, elsewhere, and. So and also I should mention, we. Did. The whole county not just Johns Island so he, could see everything that was happening and, his. Professional. Charge was, conservation. For an. 18, County area it wasn't just for John's island so this, was a really impactful, lesson, of changing. Something in one place but, that's another. And. Garrett's experience, also speaks to the, need to clarify the spatial. Scales of drivers. Data. And decision-making, so. The only way we can really understand, the, connections. Between communities. And. The environment is. By, having a fuller understanding. But having a fuller understanding. Of. The spatial scales. Of these 3ds, the. 3ds of spatial scale. And. Geospatial models, can help us do all three of these things, so. They, can demystify. The location. And scale of drivers, so. Drivers are these influences. That underpin, processes. That. Can clip illuminate, what data it is we need to. Build our models and. It. Can clarify who needs, to be at the table when we start talking, about. Management. Alternatives and. Decision-making. So. For our stakeholders. On John's Island. The, critical, driver that they identified. Was. The, zoning, put, in place, by. Charleston, County and the city of Charleston. So, there. So. For them yeah though this was really the critical driver. Because. This, is an unincorporated area. And, so they're subject, to both annexation. From. The, city of Charleston which is already happening in this, part of the island and. They're also subject to the rules. Implemented. By County. Council, of which they only hold one seat out of twelve, so. What, they wanted they, really encouraged, us to think, about doing in our modeling, efforts was not just including. The. Land use zoning categories. Which, is what you might think of like this is, residential. And this is agriculture. But, to also include the housing, density. That's. Allowed under each of these areas because. Even our agriculture.
Areas. Are actually zoned for very. High, residential. So. Very, dense residential. Development. So the primary the critical driver here, was. Zoning. Our. Stakeholders. Are also very, interested. In really. Fine, grain, land, cover data for, the extent, of the island and, in particular, they wanted to see. You. Know this very high-resolution, land, cover data overlaid. With parcel, maps so, that they could have a better sense of what. Resources, were, on land, that belonged to who so. That was a critical, data need that they identified. And. As you can see and, as I've alluded to. The. Decision-making. You. Know this is the heavy cloud. That hangs over our stakeholders. Is that they feel very. Left, out of the decision-making process. And governance, on their Island, many. Times these council, meetings are contentious. People get arrested. And. Thrown, out. And so, they. For. Them the. Decision-making. Scales. Start. And stop with the county and the city of Charleston. So. I'd, like, to emphasize that you, know I've talked about what the stakeholders, need, from us and what we've been trying to give. Them. Participatory. The benefits, of participatory, research are, really a two-way street and. They do provide this amazing. Opportunity, for the co-production, of knowledge well, yes we are trying our best to make things that are useful to stakeholders, but. These efforts are also, pushing. The frontiers, of modeling, and they're really improving, our research, efforts. So. You know four of the ways that, we are and. Again. This is an iterative. Adaptive. Collaborative, process, so we're. Going to keep going back and learning, what. Is working what is it working for, of the ways that we're hoping. To improve our models as next. Steps I've. Mentioned too already, we're. Going to try to incorporate. Residential. Density, rather, than zoning, when. We talk about change and. Make use of higher, resolution. Inputs. So our initial model ron's use 30-meter and LCD data something. Like the one meter nape is, probably, more appropriate, for the extent for, the at, least for the county, and, they'd also like to see more, island specific, population, projections, rather than county population. Projections. The. Roads are a major driver, of development. As, you saw most. Of the new projected, development, is right along the roads so. A new, proposed, expressway, I think. Is a very logical. Inclusion. Into our modeling efforts to, see what that means for. Increased development. The. One I'm most excited. Is. Sea level rise and again, this is all coming from our stakeholders and I think, represents. A frontier. A consideration. But. Many. Many. People working in these areas will have to consider so what, do you do with sea level rise and a land change model, where, do those people you're. Losing, land so where do those people go are they moving inland. Into. The island are they leaving the island. And. What does that mean for what we can use, from past, development. Patterns to, model the future so I'm really excited about that. So. Geospatial. Geo. Spatial analytics needs. People. We. Need people to, define. The problem. To. Define, acceptable. Alternatives. And evaluate, the trade-offs, between. Different. Futures. And. Then I'd say. Participatory. Research also. Needs to involve, geospatial. Models we, need geospatial, models to frame, problems, and to. Conceptualize. And visualize. These, complex. Cross-scale. Interactive. Processes. So. We. Need. Both. So. I guess I'd like to you, know go back to the title of this talk and maybe offer. A second, option, so. And by contending, that participatory. Research needs. Geospatial. Analytics. But. Equally, and in the same way, geo, spatial analytics needs, participatory.
Research. Thank. You. What. Were they. Oh. Great. Yeah great question, so. We mostly we, relied initially. On our. To community, partners the. Lowcountry Land Trust in the center for eros property, preservation. And. So they identified, kind, of community. Leaders, and. You, know people, in the in, the community who have been very evolved, in these citizens, groups there's. A few of the island the concerned citizens, grouped and the progressive, Club and. They were initially the ones that contacted. Residents. And. Invited, them to the workshop. As we, progressed. And. You, know got. To know the stakeholders, ourselves, we, increasingly, relied. On more, of a snowball, method where, they would tell, us about other people. We should talk to and. We'd invite them directly, to, the workshops. That's. A good question, I. Think we got a good. Representation. Of people. Who. Haven't. Been. Represented. In other ways so. We. Purposefully, didn't, talk to developers. Or. People, who were. Really. I. Guess. In that camp. We. Were, because. The dynamics. Are so wrought. We, really wanted to get a sense of what long term residents with, that kind of community. Memory, had. Thought. Were important. And. You. Know I think the. Other side is very well represented. When. It comes to having their interests, expressed. The. The dynamics, in the group are very, complex. And hard for us to. Control so, our, first, mapping. Workshop. Was, almost exclusively. African-american. And. That was an, intentional. That, was intentional, on the part of our, community. Of, our community. Partners, and. Then on the eve of our second, workshop, our. Aide. Jenkins, is the grandson, of, Esau. Jenkins what became, ill and. Overnight we lost. That. Participant, group except for two that. Came to the second workshop, and. We ended up with an almost entirely, white. Group. In our second workshop. Our. Third workshop was aiming, was, looking like it was going to be fantastic. Mix, of both groups and. Then there were two deaths on the island two days before our. Workshop. And. So key. People weren't, able to attend and, there. Was a three-car. Pileup 15. Minutes before it started on these, two. Lane roads so the, other half of our staple, showed up you know an hour late so it's. You. Have to get really comfortable with. Being. Adaptable, to changing. Conditions, or. Fake, comfortable. Changing. Conditions. There. Are a couple of people who, are extremely. Challenging. In. This among. Our stakeholders. It's. I, guess not surprising. But. You. Know we were. A. Team, of all, women. Researchers. And. During. The last two workshops, we've, certainly had our. Knowledge. And credentials. Questioned, in, front of the, whole group. Rudely. And. You know keeping, your cool in these situations, is. It's. Very difficult. Challenging. Schedule. You know being, far, from. From. John's Island makes things, challenging. We, are. You know relying on other, people to tell us, you. Know this is a good time this is a bad time to come this. Is what's happening, and you know people leave out critical, information. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point it's. A great point yeah we. Underestimated. Especially, at first. You. Know these are people who have for. The most part lived on, this, island. Their whole lives they. Were very invested, they were very interested. But. They weren't able to, situate. Themselves or, the places they're cared about on. You know a top-down looking, map so, that was also a big challenge it's like thinking of different ways of showing it and we, came with you. Know imagery. And, simplified. Street maps and, you know everything, we could think of to. Help make that process better and you, know like when they said even. Even. In our last workshop even, people, there were people who were with. People in their 90's and they weren't even comfortable, with stickering. Places. On a map so they were you know we would, write down the. Location there, like you. Know a kilometer, up Bill, Hickock Road you. Know and then like map it ourselves after. We, did not ask them, to identify themselves. On, the map some. People chose to do so despite. You, know us telling, them not to but. No I. I. Know. That happens and. I. Guess. The thought was with having a portfolio, of. Conservation. Mechanisms. That yes, they probably would pick their farm, but. Maybe. But. That's also valuable, to know you know that this is. This. Is of great importance, to someone that, they would also, pick. Other places and, the other. Component. Is. Too. We had two or three really, large. Farm. Owners that have been coming to these meetings. And they've. They. Really issue they, haven't been super interested, in putting, these, mechanisms, on their properties, they're, doing.
Fine. And, so they haven't been interested. And. Having easements, or other contracts, put on their property. That's. A great question. I. Would. Say I would definitely, do it again, I think, it's despite. The difficulties, it's very, worthwhile. I. Think. Maybe one of the lessons I think we learned was to build. Relationships. With. Institutions. And groups rather, than individuals. What's. Been very difficult. For the last six months or so is that two of our key. Collaborators. Voluntarily. And involuntarily. Have, been pushed. Aside, and. So you. Know we want the work to continue, we're trying our best to work with you. Know you people, and faces, but, it probably would have been better, if from the start we hadn't relied on. Those. Personal, relationships, but had built. Stronger. Connections. To. The. Community, groups. Themselves. I'll. Think of more things that I like that yeah it's a great question. Josh. They're. Mostly. Interested. In using it, as you. Know arming, themselves with, the science, when they go to. Council. To. Both County Council and city of Charleston, to, make their case, because. You know this bring connects, so with Corey was asked say I'm, asking. Earlier you, know when they're, facing, off with developers. I they. Have all the pretty maps and, you know economic, projections, and you know they have, that stuff and so I, think they're mostly, interested in leveling, the playing field a little bit with. Data, and. The visuals, and. Then the. Lowcountry Land Trust and the Center for Ayers property, preservation. They're. Really interested. In prioritizing, their. Limited. Funds in time for. Places, that will have a that. Will mean. The most the community, and have the greatest chance of being supported. Are. You suggesting for, a tenure faculty should maybe think twice. Yeah. No it's, a great question. A. You. Know in. All honesty, I'd. Say at the start it was driven by the needs, as, expressed, by the community, and, the partners, and, I, think I've been. Catching. Up a little bit with the research questions. They're. There and. I think I'm super more super excited, about them you know we're. Going to be looking at the places that they mapped as important. Natural. And cultural resources and, comparing. Them to. Planned. And current. Protected. Status so. You. Know are the, powers, that be. Planning. To protect the things that are valuable, to, the. People who are impacted. And. Then, be, those. You know changes, to the modeling themselves, I, think, are going to be a really interesting, comparison. Between, how things. How.
We're Doing things and. When. We make this change it how does it compare, in. Terms of outputs, and, and. Then, these kind, of three big lessons, themselves the three tenets. Are. In, review right now so. That's been, you know things that have been percolating in, my head for since, I was a PhD, student, now. Had found it and now have foundation, by being able, to you know ground them in these in a real experience, with, this community. And. You, know there'll be more because we have a brilliant postdoc, starting, soon. That's. What yeah that's a great question I think for some of them that point has already passed, so, these, you, know, the. The. Groups we've been working with have for. The most part been there for several generations. Or. At least that, participants, lifetime, so. The. Change we've seen, has been in the last, ten, to fifteen years. So. They've they've. Personally. Experienced. It. Yet. But I think you're you're absolutely right what that means for, will. Vary by person, so, there's a huge. Equine. Equestrian. Culture, there, and. The. And. That's you, know it's an important part of the. Identity of many people, and. So some of the development, has been new horse trails and, fans, that like a fancy equine, Center. It's. Still development. But it's one, there that's. More compatible with what they see is the their rural nature the, rural nature of, there. Island. For, others it's you. Know seeing expansive. Wetlands. The, development, doesn't really change, the. Wetlands, you can see I mean there will be other changes. So. Yeah I mean that's a that's a great place. To go in terms of research like what does that, what. Does that role mean to you. Yeah.