Kaki King & Giorgia Lupi: "Bruises: The Data We Don't See" | Talks at Google
Join. Me in welcoming to the stage Georgia, loopy and cocky King. Thank. You. I. Will. Be, 39. In August and. What that means is I will have been playing guitar for almost 35 years I started, when I was really young and as, you can see I. Started. To do something differently, with. The guitar as. A teenager, and have. Made a career out of doing interesting. Things with it, some. More traditional some, more and I thought on Orthodox like you just saw but the. Most interesting thing that I did recently was, I started to incorporate, visuals, into my live show so I the. Show that I do is based around a projection map to guitar so, the light is only hitting hitting the guitar and a. Screen behind me and I am in silhouette, and I'm almost a character that, ceases, to exist other. Than to serve the purpose of playing, the guitar so, because of this show it's called the neck as a bridge to the body, I. Found. Myself falling. Into worlds. That I never thought I would such as the design, world and the performing arts world and this sort of more theatrical world and, through. This I was introduced to you know very different people not. Just musicians but, um. Designers. And thinkers and, software, engineers and people who were, just fascinated with what I was doing one, of whom was a person, that introduced me to the. Amazing woman sitting here Georgia loopy his name was John Maeda and you may know him and. George. Is going to talk a little bit about our collaborations. And what we've done since. We've met and we're, gonna then sort of continue, the conversation, welcome to Georgia loopy. Yeah. Hi everyone my, name is Georgia, and I'm, collaborating, with my dear friend and has you here the super, talented musician, kickin but I'm not a musician myself I work with data and we, will explain, you and show you what we're doing together, in the space of data music and data visualization but let me take a step back and share, with you Who I am first, I. Work, with data in my day job and one of the partners and the creative director, at accurate, a small data machine design firm that we start in milan italy which is my home country and now also, have a small office in new york where i believe and yeah. This is our talented. Team of the designers, and data analysts, and developers they, say hi from milan and we're missing some of them in this picture as it was taking a little ago but we hardly are in the same place so that's the more complete, pictures that I have so. Every, day I am and we are presented. With complex. With challenges, on how to make sense of a complex system of informations, and with my team we address, we frame them and we solve them through visual representation. So we work with very different clients, clients in the IT even, even, with tech companies like Google itself but also with many nonprofits, and organization, to. Create tools and visualizations that can make data accessible both. To their internal, and external audiences. And I will give you a few example of the type of challenges, that we are presented, with every day to give you a sense. From. Working, with organizations, such as IBM, Ray imagining, how the whole organization. Uses data visualization. On all of their products, and how they can work with data effectively on a daily, basis, so designing, first, a practical, guide on how to translate numbers, into charts, in the very different cases they will encounter but, also designing guidelines. For the creation of visuals with data that would look and feel like IBM. To. Collaborating, with the first Italian, woman astronaut. Samantha cristoforetti. Creating, a live web experience, with the data of her mission during her six-month long expedition. To the International, Space Station and that was really exciting indeed but. Where we actually involved, her funds directly, in the experience, giving them the chance to interact with her as she was in space and, to.
Creating And building real-time, tools for social science researchers. That through visualization, can help them monitor large-scale. Social experiments. But. I also do more experimental. Work in artistic works such as art commissions or self initiated projects. Where I mainly, try to explore. And adopt a broader definition of, data accepting. Also the more subjective, intimate. And therefore, imperfect, aspects, of these information, systems, that would live in I talk. A lot about what I called it a humanism, that is my attempt, to define the focus of my research and. To understand what my personal contribution, to the field of data could be and we're, here I try, to advocate that to make data faithfully, representative. Of how our human nature we, need to start designing ways to include empathy, again imperfection, and human qualities, into how we collect. Process, and display data and this is really what guides my work. The. Project that I'm probably most known for is, called your data a year long collaboration, with another information, designer Stephanie, passe avec that was for me the big data hangover, cure. Stephanie. And I only met twice in our life where we decided to run this very radical, experiment, around one main question is, it possible to get to know another human, being through data only. So. For what we called er data every, weekend for one year we use our personal data to get to know each other, every. Weekend for one year we would collect personal data around, weekly, shared mundane, topics from, our thoughts, and ideas to the interaction, with our partners, to the. Compliments. That we gave and received, to our most intimate feelings, so 52. Excuses. In form of data to investigate and, reveal aspects, of ourselves in our lives. Personal. Data that we would then manually hand drawn on a poster, sized sheet of paper that. Every, week we would send, from London to New York where I leave him from Newark New York to London where she leaves and I'm always so jealous of the red London, post books when I show this light compared. To the creepy. Like New. York mislead, so, every Monday in for one year, so. The front was always the data drying and the back of the card, contained, of course the address of the other person, but also the legend, how to interpret, our drawings, and, so.
We Started, looking at our days through, data but not only quantifying. The numbers of times we would perform of certain actions instead. Adding, context, or details about why what, was happening, what was the situation, and the feeling. Realizing. Really week after week how to put ourself in these numbers and how the context. Of our very personal, stories for the moment, was as important. If not more than, the activity, we were counting, if you wanted to make this data truly, meaningful and representative, of ours, we've, investigated, our minds, and our most intimate thoughts and fears through data sharing, with the other person, all the moments we felt anxious sad, frustrated. Fearful. And explaining, why through, the way we categorized. Our moments of negativity and. Ultimately. As we every. Say we have been using data as our unique, language really, as our alphabet, to discover, and communicate, our lives to the other person, for one year after. The. Project Stephanie I work on a book where we Illustrated. All of the lessons that we've learned life. And data and dear-dear has been exhibited, around the world and then to our incredible. Joy in surprise, it's from the most exciting, home as the original set of our cards has been acquired as part of the permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art, but. What excited, us even more is, that and what really made us want to explore further this, idea in our jobs this is also what I'm doing with khaki is the dear data has been so well received from, the public outside the data community, who've seemingly thousands, of postcards, made by people who learned about the project and wanted to experiment, on themselves, and even teachers, of an Incred using, this format, to teach their students, the world of data it, is in a way open the idea of data to really. A wider audience that may be more approachable a tool, that can be useful for everyone and, not only for her already, work, with data or we're keen is keen to self tracking, and. I really ask myself why, did this project resonate. So much outside the data community, and I feel it's because you showed that data is not interesting. Or boring, or scare, your big per se but it's really a tool a medium, a lens in a material, for that is actually out there for everyone to use in many different ways and this. Is what, guides all. Of my projects, where whether. They are purely artistic projects. This is a terrible solution that was up at MoMA last fall closing, Paul Antonelli's, last exhibition items. In special modern I don't know if you got the chance to see the exhibition, where. I didn't have any data, besides, the least of the 111. Items of clothing than accessories, included, in this show and the, research material put together by the curators. And this was another project where I actively. Build my datasets by asking. Somatic questions, that I was reading, as I was reading new study the technics taxonomies. But. I'm not going to talk about my projects, today though you can find all of them on my website I wanted to give you a sense of my approach, to data in general before, talking. About our collaboration because, it's also what I'm using in, our work so. Khaki, and I started, working together when, design guru John my DA who, again you might know called, us to collaborate on, the, new brand identity. For. The 200 years anniversary of a limited edition for Hennessy, the cognac brand where, we designed a visual. Identity made of music, and data visualization. And. This is of course khaki playing and so, starting, from a trip that khaki took to cognac khaki composed the 200, beats song, 200, at the 200 years of the limited edition and then I detected. And analyzed every, single movement that khaki does with her hands as she plays the song and this is. It. Was kind of laborious yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So normally, wouldn't you have music, you have notation, with, guitar, you can have tablature, which is a map of the neck of the guitar where to place your hands but in this case it was if the. Left hand index finger, swipes. Up, on this, beat, that. Is its own symbol, as opposed to the, middle. Finger of the right hand doing something was its I I'm, still I. Mean. Even after of so many collaborations, I'm so floor that you into the link that you did to dissect, what, you did and the cool thing about is as you're gonna say it wraps around the box and, it is a tribute to the 200 years of VSOP. Yeah, it might, work tens tend to get pretty detailed I tend, to get very obsessed, with that your brain is built for it yeah, well. I mean so this is the idea of the whole process and then visually, I was taking clues from Hennessey's visual, legacy, which is really done of follow these calligraphy, types and I, plotted, all of that into this visual score, where every vertical line is one beat so again 200, and beats to create a visual centerpiece, of the brending on this special edition and this is how it looks like in the end so.
Again Every symbol that you see is really the representation, of things that kaki does with her hands I mean I feel like and, you're starting to open up this into a more, conversational. Thing I feel that the reason why we decided to go this, far is that there's, only so much information that can be told through a score, or a tablet or and especially in khakis case and you've heard how she plays there's a lot that can be really you know it's even. To transcribe. What I do and to make it as, specific as possible it's still very difficult for people without, seeing, me do it or having. It explained to them it's hard for, it to just be placed on a traditional. Notation, entablatures. Course yeah. But. Then kaki and I fell in love with it others work and we decided to keep exploring together, early. Last year we gathered an audience of 2,000, people in the Opera Theater Theatre in Cape Town on how to see, music exactly as we were describing based. Again on a laborious representation. Of what kaki does with her hands on her guitar as she plays and actually in this case were both the song and the visuals were informed. By personal, data collection, from our lives as I did in dear data we also did it together to compose a structure, for kaki to. Interpret. What we did in our days and composer of a song and this. Is the visualization of the song that she played live as she guided the audience to really understand, whatever symbol means and just, really, quickly in every, section, the number of black lines is the number of beats and the symbol above represents the song being played where, the top of the flower is kakis left hand and the bottom part is her right hand and the position the colors and the dimensions, of the symbol represent exactly the gestures, that kaki does with her hands and it sounds like this. But. Then unfortunately something. Not pleasant it happened and I like I'd, like kaki describe. It so. George, and I have done these two projects, together which you know when you work on a project that is as time-consuming, and laborious and back and forth as it. Is you get to know each other even just, doing one or two as. Was the case at this point and so. I had a trust. In Georgia that, I turned. Out would need really um my. Daughter who. At the time was almost three as last. Year this is her in her hospital bed she was diagnosed with a very strange autoimmune, disorder called ITP it's.
Normally, Not life-threatening, but. It. Causes. Your body to attack. Its platelets, which is essential, for blood clotting so my, daughter basically woke up one morning and had blood in her mouth she was just spontaneously, bleeding it was terrifying, she. Went to the house this is her in the hospital with her owl her, trusty owl. With. Her, arm is wrapped up because she's having an IV of she's. Actually having a platelet transfusion, she had two of those, and. It was absolutely terrifying it's a it's, it's, a strange, disorder, it's very, very, weird. When you, are told that your daughter's body is attacking itself if it's a if it's something for me outside it's, like okay look we can fix this we can make sense of this but this was happening, inside. And also there's very few side effects when, children have it so she was fine shouldn't have fever fatigue. But. You, can show them the next one yes these were this is what was happening to her body to spontaneously, these types of bruises were coming up everywhere. My. Son had been born just a few weeks, earlier so we. Were you know had a new baby and a daughter with the you know very strange illness so. The family was kind of separated, I stayed in the hospital with my daughter and you know just watched these bruises that just appear on her body but, a few weeks into the, process, she wasn't home, we, were given you know she had medications, we, were told you know don't let her hurt herself don't let her fall off with it I mean she's a very rambunctious child so that was hard I. Started, to collect data because I knew that this was. A way. To keep, track of. What. Was happening, with, her but also I think that it really became more about me because, I was but. I was losing my I was you know not parenting, while I was not. Coping. Well and collecting. Data on my, daughter on, her, medications, on her bruises on all of these things and then at, the end of the my data collection was the in you know annotations. Part was basically the information, I had about myself and, I recognized. That you know so we would go to the back to the doctor get her platelet count get her number and I, would base my life, off of that number whether I was happy or sad or able. To deal with some. Other issue or, not or, had to you know like. I'm and I connected, my emotions, and my stability, to this number. That for my daughter really wasn't a it, wasn't affecting her she was still happy. And she was energetic and, she just happened to have this thing that she was hopefully, gonna grow out of. So, the collect the data collection we did really, helped. Me, disconnect. From what was, happening to her medically, versus, what was happening to her emotionally, yeah. So um I mean, if you think about the ITP is a very visual disease, and in this moment of uncertainty what. CACI was doing I know what I was trying to support support, her with is define, a structure for how to observe, what was happening, and so. She. Started the daily use of the observation. Of a mix of quantitative, and qualitative information really, bringing together clinical. Inputs from Cooper's lab tests together with much more soft data if we want to think data why is that from, khakis observation, and from her life and we, did so primarily, the channel, stress and anxiety into a semblance of control, but. Also as. A step further in our collaboration, we decided to share this story the story of the fourth month of data collection, through data only, and I as, I was reading khakis records I was really overwhelmed, by feeling, and the things, that I asked myself as, a person who then worked with data as a material. To build a narrative. Cannot. Data visualization. I work also empathy, and activate, as and, the people who looks at, also. At an emotional level and not only at a cognitive, one and can looking at the data visualization make you feel part of a story of a human life and. Yes. So then I'll guide you through the process of the visualization and then what will tell you more about it I structure. This fluid, timeline. Where each white elements. We can call them petals is a different, day for a total of four months of data collection, and as, kaki who is anticipating. The time and is structured in sections, there are the moments in between the readings, meaning when Cooper was admitted to the hospital to have her blood checked because this moment really paced their days and so the timeline of demands was not linear in their in their life and, every.
Time There's a lab test which start a new group of petals and the platelet, counts, from the lab tests are represented, by these red dots at the beginning, of each group of days and we, need to say that the normal range for a platelet count varies, from 150. To 400 and. So the numbers of one seven, and thirty that you see in the beginning really. Frightening, and. Then. I began to incorporate Cooper, skein as was observed by khaki the intensity. Of the bruises is represented, by this purple and green splotches of course the more intense, and present the more they were present that day on Cooper's skin, the. Fatigue tail yeah I'm sorry to remember that those were really hard things to quantify to just, you, know and I knew that again. Like my my trust in Georgia was that, I could say, you. Know these bruises, are. Bigger. Or they're more purple what, happens when you have a bruised knee of ITP is your platelets don't rush in to help the clotting process so you sort of bleed into, your bruise and an old bruise can even become new. If your platelet, count drops it's just the blood simply starts to leak out, so. Yeah. I mean get and and there's also these things and I know you're about to speak, about them but petechiae and they're basically just burst blood vessels under the skin that can also happen spontaneously or, you. Know normally, if you scrape yourself and don't, break the skin you, might get a few but they go away fast Cooper would just you know it'd just be this horrible, rash on her neck on her face. So, yeah, I was it was a very visual disease, but one it was really. Hard. To measure. And so I had to use descriptive words rather than numbers, at times yeah, and when I was reading these I was now of course interested, in exact numbers of bruises and petechiae but about the four-month of the data, collection, and the evolution. Of all of these over time and so I took. My own ways to measure the intensity, based on the top you know the day that they were higher, and the day that they were lower and I tried to use this like strokes, and brushes, that can resemble visually, the disease, in, a way that also helped, us quantify, that, they didn't really see the picture the big picture that you're seeing over a longer, period of time, well. Then we added details about when Cooper was taking medications, to right specifically. And they're described, shapes that effects the day, also. Cooper, had some incidents such as you know she fell at the park while playing or she got bitten by a mosquito that, caused, her skin to worsen and we wanted to see. How that affected the the. Skin, so we also included, that and you. See how these fluid timelines begin to take form and to visually tell the story of these months, and again, his khaki was describing, besides, medical data there's also what was going on in khakis life and in her mind she. Tours a lot and she felt very stress went away from home in this particular, period of time and, the day that she was gone are indicated, with, these black dots on the days that she was gone, there. Also been hope. Yeah, luckily positive, moments, in this four months which is a fun, birthday party, for Cooper or her brother or a great Halloween night that. I represented. As this bright yellow spots interrupt the visual in a way and lastly.
Cakung Also kept track of her level of hope and fear for the day that she reported on a scale from 1 to 10 for both emotions, and that. Here at visualized through the floating lines framing, the days where the dark lines are her fears and the orange line are, her hopes and you know as she was, describing, these. Whole process, is not only about Cooper, but it's mostly about khaki. And her life and their feelings, and all, around we had some, bits of khakis. Personal, notes for the day and this is the final artwork and ultimately. These data also became of course a piece of music that she, pose directly, from the four months, of data collection, and I don't know if you want to explain this is this core that this was my score did to help me. You. Know to, analyze. The, data that I had written. Down and, to. Create a piece of music so these, are all the measures so I believe we did. Each. Beat. Know each measure, is a day yeah and the song is a hundred and twenty measures covering, the two hundred forty and twenty, days of data collection, and the timeline of the song you get exactly representing. What were what was happening, in their life exactly, as the data visualization, yeah. There are elements in the sound that reference, of the amount of particular Cooper's, king cake. Is changing mood and the main, guitar, part is a musical. Map of the bruises on Cooper's skin, this. Was a really hard one yeah it, was really hard to and, even now, having. Some distance you know looking back I'm like whoa this is this was a very but. You, know I, again. I owe this all to you because. This. Was, a way like. The only way through the only way out was through and this is something that I felt necessary to do in order to share it with people but also to. Well. You know create something that was positive. So. We premiered, this project, as at a close conference. Of health care executive in San Francisco, in January where kaki played the song like and live and we're going to play you the song for you here, through. This video and we, invite you to get immersed, in this data and to see if you feel something through, data only. So. Yeah. This is pretty. Intense. But. For the purpose, of talking about it and sharing it with you as you can probably see this is not by any means a scientific, or presentation, of data but, still we think that it paints, a pretty complete, and sensorial, picture. Of this very personal, journeys and really. This type of overlooked, information. What's going on in people's lives their feelings, I might be as important. As clinical, data and lab tests to frame a disease, especially from the point of view of the patients, and their family, and, after. We release the project publicly, we've received really a lot of messages, very personal, messages, from parents caregivers, health. Care practitioners. And in general human beings that were deeply, moved by this story. That we only told, through data many. Practitioners they, mentioned, that they realized, for the first time that data could be these and using this way many. Sharings, how the project. Really, made them think about data differently, in their work as and they're starting to think about how to include. Other types of data that they can measure with. The more human, side and. Well. Yeah kaki and I are keeping on to explore together and we'll have some news soon I I feel, will also now, like to open it up to a conversation and, for those of you who are wondering Cooper, is fine no Cooper, is okay she is um she.
Still Has ITP she, still. Probably. Were. Unsure whether or not she will grow out of it entirely this, is her and her baby brother a few, months ago. But. She has been in a healthy and fairly. High range although not in a normal range for platelet, counts for several months now so she, she hopefully will be fine and hopefully, as a child. As a childhood disease typically, children. Grow out of it she has had it for almost a, year and therefore they're, a little skeptical whether or not it's going to stay but. It's manageable it's manageable. Giorgia thank, you. So. I would, like to personally say thank you for sharing, this story and for coming and. You, know not only sharing you. Know musical, art with us but visual art and in, dealing with data and in in. Watching. This I'm, reminded. Of Neil, Gaiman's speech, about make great art no. Matter what comes along well, no matter what you face make great art and and this is a perfect, example of what seems to be a great. Art coming out of a difficult, situation I, agree. I mean I think that you know when I see every. Time the it's. Never been easy -. Never. Been easy to you know witness, this and I certainly it's not the first time I've cried but. When everything, pans out at the end and you see the full artwork and you, know especially when I see the printed art I think god that's so beautiful and and. It, does to, you know change, my emotional, state from something that's just filled, with anxiety. And tenseness, - wow you know at, the end of the day we were able to make something that's really healing and beautiful and you know - everything. About that - Georgia. But. There's. Also just this, incredible, density to, it not just the data set but. The the way that it's layered and the artwork and then the density and the music and it in an interesting way reflects the music that you've always been making which is incredibly, dense and almost. Needs as you kind of alluded to before to be seen, hearing. It almost under. Cells, the the importance, of what's actually going on the, whole, package I think and I think that's the strength of Georgia and our work together is, that you, know alone. My, music is what it is alone. Her artwork is what it is it's both very good but, together we're able to make something that's very, very. Intensely, powerful I mean I think anytime you you you merge.
Visual. And musical, information. You, know there's always an increase in the emotional. Content, and the you know people's ability to connect and to have. You. Know feelings. But I think when you understand. That there is there's a data point underlying, every, single, piece of information that you're seeing and hearing that, they're though there's a system, and the logic to it it it, even it brings it even more strength, and more like. You know something solid to stand on it's not you, know not, to say art is random but it can be it can be more you know where, however, the wind blew that day but this is something that's beautiful and very grounded, yeah, just. After that I feel that again. The reason why we like collaborating, and we feel that, yeah. It's. Really good for us to work together is that both our. Your. Music, and my way. Of visualizing data again as you pointed, out in the beginning are very dense and very rich very deep so, I feel that you know if I, was probably, a person, work with data in a more standard, way and if you were a musician work with music in a more sounder way probably we I mean we still, would get along but. With. I know, you mentioned this composition the, music that's underlying is based, around the, data have. Out, of curiosity have you looked at examining. Other massive. Data sets to see what they sound like, well. It's. Tricky and I mean even, the previous things we've done, together it's very. You. Know music has these as. A music. Wants to have rules, and it wants to fit into a much you know typically. I mean a scale has seven notes. You. Know there there there there isn't, a sort of infinite, amount of options or there well there are many many textures, and, styles. And colors. But you know one thing that we talk about a lot is how music. Is something, that develops over time and, now. You've always said data does too and yeah especially a data collection by, doing yourself, anything. Develops. Over time but it's been you know but it's also potential to stack data you, know like. This and it's it's trickier, to do that with music to sort of say well you, know I've got 30 data points, which you can easily sort of show in a line but. To put those 30 data points into a musical, note or a musical. Measures it's a lot harder so. So. I guess what I'm saying is trying, to. Trying. To work with them the pre of, music, in general. Even even, pretty far-out ideas. And. And work, with datasets is challenging. But. It's also. Feasible. And something, that we're taking on yeah, we're actually yeah, we're collaborating, we have we will have some news soon hopefully something, big we're gonna have a baby. A. Beautiful. Artistic baby wonderful. Let's take some some, questions from the audience please, hello. Yes. First. Off thanks for coming again, and. So. Like. A lot of creative, projects, I mean pretty much every everyone, that I know of it where, you're collaborating, there's. Often. Disagreements. And I. Was wondering, you know, especially when it's something so personal. Like you might bite your tongue and, if. Maybe, one person has an opinion about the other one's expertise. It's. Harder to talk about but I was just wondering if. You could tell. Us any stories about, that. If, there was any, disagreements. You know in, this in this particular case, I. Was. Still. So distraught, that I needed, guidance, and, I. Feel. For the most part and you'll have to correct me because my memory even of this time period was very it's, very cloudy and, my son, and unfortunately, also had a issue. With his heart so my just having two sick children is like more. Than it's. Really difficult so, I looked, to Georgia for guidance and I really didn't step. In the way of anything unless. Unless. I did do we have a fight no I feel you know honestly I feel that we'd never had a fight at all but we have had our we're. Different, we're, very very different, types of we have different styles and different approach even today yeah, you I mean how many emails did you send me about today and I was like George's can be fine we're gonna do, our thing speak to people and you're like khaki I have to have my notes, well. It's different I mean I do public speaking the whole time, but since I don't have a guitar, with me. She's. More like whatever. Yeah. I think that we do approach our work and. You. I've, been performing on stage for. My my entire career that's all my career has ever been since I was 23 so, I have, a, different.
Approach To most, things really just you know getting. Things done not worrying about their presentation, kind of like, not thinking, that this, project. Is the last thing that will ever matter just sort of working through it and you are so precise, and so. You. Add down to every like look at her work it is down to every single last detail, and and. I'm making some very boring. Because. I don't know trust me because I respect you and in this way love you so much because I'm not that I don't worry. About the details because because, in live performance, it's gone the mistake, is forever. Forgotten I mean really like you you just roll on to the next gig and for you what, you do is your legacy and it stays, in it there can be no mistakes and there can be no act, you know something accidental. Because again, what deta worked sorry with Georgia works data. What, data works with his Georgia that's really, the truth so. I think that sometimes I I, think you know and just are because. We are working. Intimately. Together, on things, our. Personal, stat like she'll send me ten emails and I'm like. I'll. Reply, eventually, I don't know I'm on tour what do you want. But. No I think we meet halfway and I think that I am inspired by Georgia's attention to detail on her, sort. Of relentless. Georgian. If I can, you. Know getting both. At the data and representation. Of the data perfectly. But also at the human. The data humanism the beauty of it, those. Are the things that inspire me about you. Well. Thank you, but. I feel yours is really an interesting question especially because like as I met kaki personally, I was right, about after. The deer data project, there was another intense collaboration with another woman and I feel that the difference is there for example if I had to compare there's two collaboration, which are both amazing and I have two, amazing friends, out of that but. Is. If you're collaborating with, a person who does exactly what you do is harder, like with Stephanie, it has been way harder. We. Have, no. No it was share these on stages while Stephanie and I arrived to appointment, we really, needed to have a shared, spreadsheet. Of the things that we hated about each other's design so, that we didn't like you know by mistake, pick a font or a color to the other person do you like, the.
Website So you have no idea what a collaboration, but doesn't work like by, anyway but I'm really really excited about I'm so glad written with Stephanie, but I guess what I'm saying is that what. You and I do is so different I mean for. Me collaborating, with you is having a source of data a source of inspiration. Of, sort of really the, things. That are not even comparable to my work this is really a fool to my work in a way and and, I also believe that you know our personality. Is a we. Get a like really also joke. About that I send you pictures of my perfectly, organized, and color. Clean, so you have that empowers, and like folded, things I I have, a few children and I have a wife that works in set design so our house is just whatever. I, mean it's a disaster. And. When I need to breathe I asked, Georgia can you just send me a picture of your pens just, your organized, depends. And. I get this beautiful. Photos and I get so calm and then I'm I threatened, her I'm like if you, know I'm gonna send you a photo of my medicine cabinet. So, yeah we do we do like clean. Organized, things we do have that in. Common for, sure and I think that you know and ultimately, I think we like our lives to be clean, and organized and our work to be powerful, in that way so no, no no giant, fights yet. But. But definitely, a. You. Know certainly, different personalities, but probably, that have arisen from the the. Work that we've been in for so long and I, think my you, know music and touring, has shaped Who I am. Of course min and I on my. Hands. The the subject but I work. With clients every, time I need, to be organized and precise with emails with deadlines, with stuff I mean it's it's really different probably to be a musician entering, the world and to run a company and working with data so it's kind of like really the opposite. And you, know end of the spectrum but still I feel again, with me in the middle well. On the topic of organization and, I think we we do have a couple more minutes for questions if anybody else please make your way to a mic on, the topic. Of the organization, I it makes me curious about with. The flowers project. When. You saw that visually. Represented, how did it how. Did you process like that's, what you're doing, was. That a, because. You talked about not not really fussing, over the details when, you see it laid out and so detailed of like yeah that's your finger moving that's this other finger in this did how, did you how did that impact I, think it. Is. Such, an, exciting. And. And, it's, like a way that I feel honored, that what. I do is interesting, enough to another person, not, just to learn it on the guitar not, just to be, curious about what it is but to but to to. Be able to take the time to work out exactly. What. It is that each, finger on, each hand is is. Precisely. Doing, I mean, it's and and the result, is, beautiful. I mean I think it's not like for me when I look at George's work it's, about the result again I'm not the. Most detailed, person so you can read the legend, you can see exactly what's happening you can decipher it all it's all built on something with, this you know it's all it exists.
In The real world but. The, that. Is less important, to me then. What. Has. Come out of it which is this glorious. Picture of these beautiful, strange, flowers. That have opened up so it's like it's. Hard for me to believe that that's my music that, literally, that is my music that is George's interpretation. Of but, that it's every single thing that I do is contained in that visual. Representation so, I think it's just this it's, ah I'm. Just in awe. Both my. Sheer, luck that I get to work with someone that cares enough and, and my other people, that other people it resonates, so, you know every time you go to conference and you present it you're like kaki people loved it it was great and I, think, yeah. And so so I still and. Not being a person that has, any origin. In the visual or tech. World at all you. Know to to. Be invited, in and to be, having. My music expressed, in this way is just I'm floored. I'm honored and and, I it's just very small but you started to work with visuals, even before meeting me so I guess said you were already like drawn into making your music not only you. Know listenable, but also it's. True I I did I had, been, starting work to work with visuals but not the, the. Connection wasn't was. Was. Very soft and, not this. Not. Dated well. And I think it's a great nexus. Of a, lot, of different like sort of wants and needs in in weird, triangulation. Way and that musicians, forever, have sought, to make like music videos to have a visualization, and, people, in the big data world are like well if you're just a bunch of numbers it's very dry so. How do you make, that visually. Interesting or just interesting, and beyond, people who really like numbers and this, seems to be a great, triad. Nexus, of music, meets visual, meets data and. It's presented in a truly, awesome and, awe-inspiring way, so thank, you very much both we. Do have a couple minutes would you mind, gracing, us with another song oh did. You have a question yeah absolutely. I, think. We got time for both please. First. Of all thank you both for being here, kaki. I was just wondering if, you could share a little bit about how you. Normally. Approach writing songs from, scratch. And, then how. It's different, to approach, this. Song. Where. You have these parameters set up for you where you know if, this data. Point represents, you know a percussion, made here you. Sort of have to follow that through for the rest of the song so. When I write a song from, scratch a total, freedom. You. Know tempos. Moods, tunings. Whatever I have nope I have no parameters which can be which, can be its own challenge. With. This tune. Like. I said sort, of cramming. Data in I don't, want to say cram II but I did that that's when. I get frustrated that's how I feel because I feel like I I feel like I'm not servicing, the data in the way it should be and. Then. There's certain musical, elements, that just need to be there they're you know that. There's a time line there should be a beat there should there has to be there has to be an opening closing point, so, we collected you know we did four months of data because that would fit into a three, minute song with each measure being, three beats. And one hundred four hundred twenty measures I can, but. You basically, we sort of had to you know we had a cap it to to, allow, it to make sense visually and musically and. So. You know for instance there's a part where my mood, would shift and the piano sound would go from a major to, a minor or the underlying synthesizer, sound and I, wasn't exactly happy, with it because occasionally, it would happen you. Know it wouldn't happen in a four bar phrase it would sort of happen at bar five or bar seven. And even. Though I'm hip to that it was it just it wasn't always working so I had to without. Shifting. Anything, I nudged, a little bit I sort of did, that. So. Trying, to retain the all of the integrity of the data and in retaining, the integrity of music, is actually. Hugely challenging and, it's something that I think that I'm still figuring out the process of it. If I can add one thing like following, you from afar as you were composing the music like not from afar but like from the outside is, not, that you decided, what notes to play based on the data but he had some melodies in mind and then or mail this is like let's say.
Combinations. Of sounds, that then would, integrate the timelines in the data collection so it was not really a direct translation, of data a note. You, know G minor or something but it was more of like okay following, some structures, knowing that there are some sections and and moments. That needed to be represented. With a sound to, really pay the. Truth we did a collection, by there were moments when I feel is not that you were improvising, but that. You took. A fair, amount of probably. Freedom, in little, phrases, to express also. Things that were really personal for you like your changes of mood so I guess I'm saying it's not really always, a direct translation but, it's more like data. That informs a music composition whereas, with data visualization probably. Also because it's more formalized, and because people needs to understand. And see well, for data visualization it is a direct translation of the data points well. But also what you do and what you're focused with your focus on data humanism, it allows, me. To look at data and. Say. I have a feeling, now so you know so much of what you do is with your data with other things it has so much you, know personal, emotion. Built into it and music. Is the language of emotion especially you know instrumental, music which is a language I'm very familiar with so it's it's, almost like you know is it more important, for this precise. Note to land on this exact measure to represent. You. Know when we were in the hospital or is it more important to you to feel that and I think that the data humanism, aspect, of Jorge's work and and music. Allows, that, connection. To be made allows that freedom to, and and to take a tiny bit of Liberty but still. More effectively, getting the point across. Thank. You again. Just, absolutely, astounding work it's. Really beautiful, it's really sonically. Amazing. And astounding and you both have created something amazing that I think the people in, the world can. Grow from just watching, and hopefully it does. Have that impact, we, look forward to what is next are you able to tell us anything about this sure, art music baby. I. Have. Because. Of the four-way foray, into performing. Arts and the. At Racal work that's. Still based all around you, know me playing the guitar but I have, a lot more creative, freedom and license and because of my work with Georgia. There are arts. Organizations, out there who are basically saying we are inviting, you to create, a work that. Incorporates. What, I do what Georgia does and to and, tells, more of a story. Through. Data not just data, visualization, but you know to kind of. All of. You know what is that word due to your mind and, and, to talk about it and Georgia has been I've I've. Sort. Of signified. Her as my. My. Muse and. My. Consultant, and as well as someone that's going to do, a lot of visual work for, the show both you, know in the sort of things, that you've already seen and and and hopefully some ways that we haven't we haven't tried yet yeah hopefully, like a full, show together, like, what khaki of course it's gonna be able person playing in 2019, and one for, me it's also really interesting to take. This idea of data humanism, and bringing it outside, the data community, or the visualization, community, can try to tell a story, how out of the many different ways that we have to look at data and the data soft, and small and big and cold, influence. Our lives so that will be that, will be it stay tuned, excellent. Well I'm certainly looking forward to it and again thank you very much both for being here today thank you for having us and. Absolutely. Please stage is yours. This. Song goes out to my buddy Aaron over here and, also. My buddy George over there. You. You.