Saturday Session - Live Stream Open Q&A
Hmm. Okay. Notifications. Are out your. Life, hello. Good morning. Okay. So, we. Have ES. And William. Zimmerman, good, morning everybody. And, Eric, yes you were the first one there not counting Shelly and I. Yes. Eric Eric. Schmidt yeah okay. All. Right and I can see that we're up and good. Morning with. A Gypsys, kiss the, Q&A. Session, I'm Shelly Carney and. Tobey's. Coming, up. Hello. What. You. Can't see me yeah. I'm just saying thank you okay, man, at the barn, we. Have moderators, on board that's good mark. Conway a. Cache. Gabriel. All, right Jimmy fast in the, house. JT. Branch. Schultz. Shaco. Star, son. Okay. Well. We got a place got, a good place to start so a, couple of things before we get started and I'll mention this again I got. A note from my good friend my callings, who. Runs Cal is ours and he. Who, is that, mark. Conway, Wow, mark. Thank. You and, make. Sure you get a question ask before we leave for the day. Excuse. Me, so. I wanted to mention our. Friend. Micah cowlings, who has a YouTube. Channel called cow, lazarre's he's, running, a contest. Called. Cow. Lazarre's grand, adventure. -, and. If. You go over to his youtube channel you'll. See that he's giving away 7, treasure, related, books and including. The three. Forrest Fenn memoirs. If. You join the grand adventure. And figure out the puzzles at Sur cetera, also, you can find him at Fay. On Facebook, at Cal, is ours, grand. Adventure, and if I'm not sounding, really coherent, today it's because there's. A slight. Delay between what I'm talking, and when it's coming back to me in these headphones and I haven't figured out how to resolve that just yet except, to ignore myself, but, I need them in order to be, able to hear Shelley. Know. Shelley. Okay. So bill cross is here from Texas, and Wayne Petersen, as well good, morning. Are. We ready to get started with some questions I see we have our first question here from Jacques Chekov. Star son. You. See that I. Do. So, have you ever considered, fortuyn. Combi. Gray, I'm not even sure I know how to pronounce that as warm. Where warm water salt, obviously. Not I I think I've heard of it in terms of history but, I have actually. Haven't considered it in terms of the. With. The chase we'll take a look into it maybe come up with a better answer for you in one of our upcoming shows. The. Other thing too guys if you do have a question as opposed to just chatting amongst yourself and and, we do highly recommend that you have, a conversation amongst yourself as each. Of you is making your own comments, but if you have something for us make sure you start with an uppercase, AG K so. That we know it's a question and it doesn't go screaming. By and again, mark, thank you very much for your super. Chat we really appreciate, it for those of you. Who would like to contribute to this super chat if you look down at the bottom of the superset, C, this. Is gonna be tough if, you look down at the bottom. Of. The super chat or, I'm, sorry of the chat window, you'll. See a, an, emoji icon, and you'll see a dollar. Icon. Dollar sign, icon, and if. You click on that dollar sign icon, you're able to contribute, to our project, here. Excuse. Me, you. Know mark you're right we do put a lot of work into it but we also have a lot of fun with it we've, been talking. About this, Saturday, event now Shelley and I for. A. Couple, of days and kind, of planning it out and really looking forward to it and our, plan at the moment is to. Have. An event like this probably. Once a month because, we get enough people say, you, know we can't see your show on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and I don't know I'll look at the statistics.
Afterwards, And. See. How many people we had viewing, and, how, many questions, things like that decide, whether or not whether. Or not it's. Worthwhile for all of us to do this so, it. Is, Saturday, and I'm sure that lots. About the things to do. There. Bonacci here this morning good morning. And. Jacques. Scheck. A star Sun on that's going to be a hard name to say he, says it's a near delta, colorado and. The, Ute, his. Red waters fourth is halt. We. Hadn't heard of it I haven't. Heard of it I'm. Wondering is it, on tribal. Property because. I know some of the the, older the more historic, forts ended, up on tribal, property as the Tri as the reservations, were, outlined. In to find so if it's on tribal property that's probably why we don't know. Anything. About it because we're we avoid tribal, property. We. Just don't think the treasures there so, mark has this question. AGK. Based on fens last, six. Questions, do you think his answers, were less. Cryptic. Than, in the past that's, an interesting question I. Don't. Know I. Honestly. The. Conclusion, I came to and. And, I think it's because we believe. That fen is coming to the end of. His treasure, lifecycle. You know his 15-year treasure. Life cycle on his lost interest in it I, would. Say that they were. Less. Cryptic. Than, they, were in the past and I think the reason is, is in the past he. Made them intentionally and, I say, them as a generalization. I don't know necessarily that, they were all like that but, it struck me that as I compared this year's responses, to previous. Year's responses. The. Previous year's responses, tended, to be, as. You refer to it mark more cryptic, because. For. What for to Rosie for. Two reasons number one he, was trying not to, give, away what. I'd, call hard clues soft. And soft hands, but. He. Was trying to maintain a. Marketing. Level of interest, in the chase. This. Year's questions. Struck. Me as it. If, not. Informative. They, were at least, straightforward. And. That, I. Don't. Think he feels like he has to, you. Know work at doing anymore marketing. I don't. Think he has to be cryptic. So, that he can keep our interest. The, one the. One element of. His. Responses. That I thought that was interesting and can, be taken as potential, marketing, can. Be taken as potential. Marketing is his. Reference. To his. Gut feeling, that you. Know the, treasure could, be found, this. Coming summer I think. That. Was cryptic, in the sense that it was neither a hint. Or clue. But. His. Inability. And, I know this feeling because it happens to me a lot his, inability. Not. To. Market, he's, always, got, to do a little bit of marketing and I. Think, it was reflected in that particular response but, I think, you. Know you could have almost written some, of his responses, into the, beginning of another memoir, what, do you think chef. Well. I agree and, what he gave out mostly, were his do not. Although. Except, for thee you, know somebody I feel, somebody's, going to find it this summer I think that caused a, little bit of a you, know an, injection. Of excitement. Into their energy conversation. But. At. The same time I look, at it is oh well, that's you know that's good marketing and hey I can, use that to compel, of the Vettii you, know looks boyfriend. Says some somebody's, gonna find the treasure this summer it should be used so jump on board now you know I think. The. End is drawing ever nigh so. That's. A good good way to go, but, yeah. The rest of it was kind of like do not. Do. This or do not do that it wasn't, I. Think. We've discovered, that I. Read. The book read the poem is about as far as he's gonna go with giving. Us instructions, on what to do. Yeah. Or, his. Last one in. The interview on Nightline, more you said keep it simple you know, so. Tom agee ke have you considered that forest and possibly built his own kiba's somewhere, like, those he excavated. It at san lazaro. Might. Help explain the blaze and, oops. It jumped about me and the in the wood in the same location we have not considered that as a possibility. Tom. Morning. Journey man. HEK, from mark Conway based. On fence last oh I already answer that sorry, so, we have a contribution, to super Chuck from B cross and another one from Shaka, starsin, oh well. Thank you both very much, we truly appreciate these. They really, do inspire. Us, to work, harder, and continue, doing the work related. To the. Chase and pretty much stick with it so thank. You very much for those we really appreciate it. Let's. See. On. Componentry. Compadre. Oh thank. You thank. You Laurie for helping with a pronunciation. Wound call on corn, oh is. That right oon compadre. Padre Oh like like. Relative. Own compadre. That's, how we said in Spanish when you talk about somebody.
Who's Related to you oon compadre. So, I, wonder, if that's where it came from, I will have to look that up and see if own, compadre. Is the same as the. Spanish. Own. Compadre. That. Is not a hint or a, clue. Can. You share for us dedicated, folks a hint at the, six questions, agk set, to fend the. Questions, that we sent. Took. Them can you sure. Oh. Okay. So, the. Process included, Shelly and I picking the six questions that a, met. All the rules and, B we, felt like wouldn't. Offend then, and. Would get a response so, I. Think, we did that on Tuesday after we talked to you guys and then the next day. Shelly. Composed, a letter and sent it off to fenner the. Thinner oh this is going to be a little harder, every. Star is awakened, listen. To you and not listen to myself. And. To. The best of my knowledge we haven't received a response yet Shelly. No, I have not no. Cyril. So. Eric. No we just we're. We're pursuing it and. As. Soon, as we get a response we'll let everybody know. And. And. If we get it in time we'll do a show on it. If. We don't we have alternatives, for a show this week so when. He wants a hint of what we ask so I can say that we asked some very simple direct. Straightforward. Questions, nothing compounds. Nothing. Wrong. Yeah. We we. Stuck, to the rules that we advised everybody, of open-ended. Questions, non. Compound, no yes/no questions, and they. Should, start with who what where when how and I, even allowed for room for y which is not a question that I normally ask unless I want, to be expressly. Confrontational. So. They. Were six questions that. Offered. Him, a. Range. Of, things to think about they, were not, I wouldn't. Call them superbly. Intrusive. They. Just gave him a chance to answer wanted, to make them comfortable with the idea because, what I'd like to do is maybe do the same thing that the. Jenny does and ask him once a year you don't take questions from our viewers and, send. Them in. So. We're having a very coming, up would be a good good thing to share them oh that's. Right. So, Shelley reminded, me that we, have our one-year, anniversary. Of our first. Program. Which was a not, a live stream it was a video coming. Up here on March 7th, so. There. The question is a man in the barn and, the payment. Men. Do. You think that the, fort Clark picture. References. Is anything, important, because of the time Ford Clark was active, I've. Always questioned, if that, is a picture, of Peggy, or a young pic of his mother. Well, okay, I. Off. The top of my head I can't I, can't. Get. An image of that particular photograph I'm gonna have to go back and look, at it but. Oh I. Will look at it and I will give you a response in the comments all right I want you to know that we appreciate you moderating. These things and I want to make sure that we get your questions, answered, so. I'll take a look at it maybe put in the comments when we uh when we, oppose this. Shaco. Star son Chuck. Shake. O star son trying. To figure out that, Lord. James own. Compadre. How's that how's that that better. Let's. See, perfect, oh it's for good thanks. Secondly, Indian red waters Wayne, Peterson agk what, do you consider north. Of Santa, Fe degrees, wise same, thing as forests, he was once asked. And. I don't have the reference for it but he was once asked, what is north of Santa Fe and, basic, his response, was. The. Range of north is from. 271. Degrees to 89. Degrees so, he considers, the whole north. You, know that's. North that's what he calls it so I think we have to consider that as well. Although. When, you combine that with the, eight. Point two five miles north of, the outer. Boundaries, of Santa Fe you. End up with an interesting map but, we've done the work so. Calais. Ours hey good morning Mike, we mentioned you earlier this is the. Gentleman that I was referring to earlier calles. Ours is Mike cowlings he has a YouTube. Channel that also. It. Covers fence, search. Or, fence treasure but it also covers a, number. Of other treasure, hunts as well and right, now on his YouTube, channel and his Facebook, page, he. Has, a. Viewer. Competition. And. If you've solved. The puzzles. You. You qualify, for winning. One of seven, treasure hunt books including, three, including. The three for Sven memoir so. Mike. When you get a chance just put a you. Know enter a comment, about, the. Competition and we're. On Facebook people can get more information okay. And. There's never splendid my emails. Would, chakra starsin don't feel bad. There. Was a point at which I realized he was going to answer all my emails either he does on occasion, but. That's. Just the nature of things and I wouldn't. Take it personally, he gets hundreds of them and, he. Probably, can't answer all of them without giving you a hint. Good. Morning Joel, did, I say that already. Dirty. Water Red Lake oh so it's not my one of my relatives. Agk, from jolla wiki you. Have had some, pretty complicated, ideas, about the search, how are you attempting to simplify, and how would you suggest others, simplify.
If. You, look, at. Shelly's. At, the video that we released yesterday, where. Shelly, talks, about getting back to basics that's. What we're gonna do we're gonna get back to basics and we started that as part of the process of our Thursday show where. We're, covering. The book and. The chapters in the book and we are getting back to basics in the sense that we're reading. The book reading, the poem over and over again until we've got it memorized and then, reading the book and again. Looking for hints that might help us with the clues so we are getting back to basics and the. Other thing too, I'm. Not convinced, that that. Our ideas, necessarily. Are, that complicated. To me the simplest, the. Simplest solution for warm waters, which is what came. Up when I first entered the word in Google several years ago. Being. The New Mexico Game and Fish regulations. That. Sounds like a very simple solution to me so, well. I have a have. A question, go ahead. Since. You're talking about our show yesterday and, for. Those of you who watched, it, we. Talking about. Fans. Advice to find the treasure which is read. The book study. The poem. Memorize. The poem go back and read the book again and we're. Doing that we're doing that with a book club we've. Already done it several times over the years and, I'm. Still waiting for the, magical, solution, to pop into my head and tell me where to go but. From. Reading. The book and studying the poem to the magical solution there's, a piece missing right. There's, a piece missing what what, is that okay. I don't, understand. How, to get there so what, is that missing piece and how do we fill that in. You. Know you've hit me with that a couple of times before and. So. I'm not I'm ready to share this. And. And, maybe what we just need to do is is have a program, on this ok so, I. Have. The answer in my have the answer to that question in my head and in. The conversations, that you and I have had it. It, comes, out in a in a small in a. Small way, but. The hard, part is taking, what thin is telling, us in the book and the poem and. Creating. A. Solution. For, that and there's, a process, that goes along with it and it. Includes. For. All intents and purposes the logic, that one would find in a flow chart. With. Decision. Points, and, you. Need to be you. Need to be able to fill in the blanks so the blanks are Fenn. Tells us, that. You. Have to be out in the field that there are nine clues that you can, take. The first you find the first two clues on Google Earth but then you have to be in the field but. You, he. Tells us you. Can't. You. Can't leave home without, knowing where warm waters halt. But. The reality, is you. Can't leave, home. Without. Knowing, what. The, other clues, in the poem may. Represent. You've got to know what you're looking for. And. That means you're creating, a flow chart with. I, don't, know close. To a million different. Based. On the on the nine clues, close, to a million, different, options. Possibilities. And, you've. Got to be able to draw that out and you've got it and and, you have to be able to do that before you leave home and at. Some point you're gonna get to where, you think no. Place for the meek is boots. On the ground and. You're gonna realize that. That's. Not it and so, you have to go back to your last decision point and see what the other option for that is and that's why it takes more. Than one boots, on the ground that's, why Cynthia. Has made over. 100. Searches. As in Dale has made 65, searches. And stephanie has made over a hundred and fifty searches, because, they get to that flowchart, decision, the, little diamond. Decision. Point and. They. Realize, that point. Was wrong and and. In each step you go along the way you. Increase, by a. Factor of. Error. Being. Wrong you, you have to fairness told us you're, not gonna find it until you figured out all nine clues you're not gonna find it if you've, got one and two but. You don't know what, three. Through, nine is. Not. Where it is but, what it is we're. Gonna talk about that in an upcoming show are you you know you we've, talked about this before and.
It's. It's. It's basically complex. Game theory, and it's. Hard to explain without, the complex, complexities. Of game, theory and so what we have to do is figure out a way for our viewers, to, explain, it not. That our viewers are done we have really smart viewers but. To explain, it in a way that. Makes sense and, doesn't. Intimidate, you, when you first try it when you're trying to develop your first solution, does. That answer your question yeah. I think so. We need to get busy on our full-time job. We. Need to get busier in our flowchart and, we, need to get busy, on a set of slides that explains how we build our flowchart, as we do build up what I build. A flowchart in my head and that's what we follow so all. Right let's go back to the viewers questions. Joelle. Agk you had some pretty complicated okay I thought, I answered I did answer that I've searched, reload. To Taos White Rock oh that's not a question. Checker. Starts, it is trackable, we. Actually. Did that one sentence in one of our older videos. Shaco. Okay, I'm go that's what I'm going to do. Yes, hdk, fan mentions in thriller chase the book was my ninth in 26, years what, it was it really is night it, depends. Because. He it depends what you count as a book if. You count his, books, as. Those. That were formerly, published by. A publisher, and put up for sale yes the reality is he wrote a couple of other at least a couple of other books that I'm aware of that were informally. Published and not put up for sale were just part of what is marketing, what, kind of marketing he was doing. Let's. See, a, GK when you asked for his questions did you include the names of, who. S know, I used the initials. Of the, individuals, who asked. So. The. Sentence, was I, think, I've formulated a sense by using. Initials, for example, in, your kid. The case of Dan Kirk, not they used Dan's. Question but. I would have done DK. Asks. And then, I would and then I would have listed the question I did not use I did not use names if. It's a picture that man and the barn was referring to it's on the inside cover of. The. Thrill of the chase itself, that looks like piggy yeah. That's. Probably when they lived in Florida. Yeah. Yeah. And, that's one, of the things that you have to remember, about Forrest, is that. He. In. The Air Force traveled. A great deal the Air Force is very good at shipping you off at minimum, of every two years sometimes. More than that so they, saw a lot of different, locations and I'm sure they, have a lot of photos from those various locations, so I. Like. We. Like Velarde, hey Black Mesa wineries. Let's. Say. GK a question, from a past video do.
You Think there are enough wealth the individuals, interest in the forest ventrishire, to make selling it as. One. Complete item the auction house is a viable option, and you're, referring to our, video. Where we talk about what we're going to do if we find that we, were actually more positive, than that now, what do we do what we're gonna do when we find the treasure. It. There. Are. Friends. Of forests, enough, so. That if you were to do a local, auction but. There are friends enforced enough that. Are wealthy enough because, of their note various, know kinds, of notoriety that. Could probably, do it but one of the things the auction, house the big one big, auction, houses like South apiece, are, really. Good at is. Marketing. Their auctions, so. I. Don't, know. The, answer to that I do know if you've ever been to a South appease auction. In. Any of the locations whether it's London or New York or Los Angeles New. York is amazing, because everybody. Shows up for the auction there are people phoning. In their bids but, what South Beach does is, market. And. They. Would do the marketing, necessary. To. Necessary. To attract, buyers, potential. Bidders. On. That product it wouldn't be up to the finder to do that if you went to an auction house it's, up to the auction house and that's why you paid them a, 15%. Fee, for. Doing that for you I think. I missed the question from Dan Kirk says. Do you think it's likely that each clue could have two meanings. No. Do. You remember, recently. I don't know whether I posted on the blog I posted. A photograph of, what. Turned out to be a. See. Chart. Made. Of sticks and shells. That. Represented. Pacific, Islanders. Navigation. Of the area, around the Marshall Islands. And. In and. It was very telling in the sense that if, I were to hand that stick, chart to, someone, who. Happened, to be my, son. And, his, new wife and, their. New baby and, they, were going they, were leaving home and going to, make. Their own home, in one, of the other islands, what. I wouldn't, want is, for. That. Set. Of sticks, and shells, to be, interpreted. In more. Than one way, because. I'd lose them and. So. No I think thin. Out of necessity, and, the. Potential for actually. Having someone find the treasure. Ensured. That. In his. Head there, was only one meaning. For. Any. One, of the clues in the book whether it's a stick or a shell. It, only has one meeting, and. If it doesn't then, it. Turns out to be misleading, and I. Don't think he wants that, we. Have a question here from Deborah, Jensen, have you ever made a connection, with where. Warm waters held to where balmy. Breezes blow, in the New Mexico State song. Deborah. I, have. Sung, the New Mexico, State song. Once. And. That's. About the only time, I've, ever considered. For, any reason, the, New Mexico State song, so I'm sorry no we have it. Let's. See. Jimmy. Fast says I have a gut feeling it's near Pilar well we. It. You know what Jimmy. What you're gonna find about Pilar is kind, of what I said earlier you.
Can, If, if you actually. I was gonna say if you work in it you don't actually have to work at it if you, go. To Pilar. You could make the clues fit very nicely. Yeah. We've been there many times and, toadies even, I. Don't. Know sent up the drone right a couple of times we sent up the drone went. Through the the, dry creek bed we said. All right then we keep saying this isn't very funny and. And. We keep searching but, this. Doesn't I don't know where there's no blaze that I I can see yeah that, was the hard part was finding something that really was a, blaze it's just not that kind. Of territory, up there but you, know home of brown all of it as a matter of fact we, have a video, on. The. Is, it Taos Junction. Yeah. Yeah, so. Take a look at the video that we did on the Taos, Junction. A little, 5 8 minute video that Shelly. And I did and that was our visit to kill our you can see it there yes. Everything. You need to know about Pilar. Defense. Says if it is found do you plan to announce, that you are not the finder. Well, we probably be. Subtle. In whatever, we do. We'll. Probably make, an announcement, that there, was an announcement, that the treasure has been found. And. That we're. Going to take a couple of weeks off so we can reconsider. What. Our next YouTube channel, is going to be about I have. To say unless you know Toby really really. Really well he can tell you a story and you'll, believe it and. Not. All the truth, what. He can do is get up on screen and say you know just, make an announcement and I won't be on screen because my, face doesn't, lie very well. But. Yeah. Toby, company's pretty convincing, because he said that what do you call it state stagecraft. It's. Uh several, years at about several years several classes at the. Shakespearean. Theatre the. Folger Shakespeare Theatre. In Washington. DC. JT. Wants, to know why did you choose the name a gypsies kiss oh, what. A good, question. But. It's a long story so, let me see I'm gonna let, me see if I can tell a short version of that story when I was in. High school I was was going to st., Michael's High School and I was sent there it was in my hometown but, I was sent there as a boarding student because it was considered a rebellious, and perhaps, even somewhat troubled child, but. At, some, point I got tired of it and I ran away from. School and I, hitchhiked up to a, Baku, where my uncle was staying and I.
Started To steal his motorcycle, and my, plan was to go to Mardi Gras in New Orleans and. He. Caught me he, caught me stealing it and and, then he helped me do exactly, that's over the next couple of days I wrote, from Abiquiu all. The way across the States Texas Louisiana and, Louisiana. Or Arkansas and Louisiana to uh to. New Orleans and, a, number of things happened. When I got there but, one of the things that happened is, I had met a young, woman and she wanted. To take me she couldn't understand why I was doing all of this at age 15, and she. Took me to see a. Gypsy. Fortune-teller, in in. Algiers. Which is the Cajun area of New Orleans what, at the time was a Cajun area of New Orleans and. So. The, Gypsy, was kind. Of a classic, movie gypsy I you if I needed, to find them you know a person to play, that part of a gypsy she would have been perfect with a bandana and kind of the old you. Know leathery, face and, she. Was reading my. Fortune. In French. And probably. French kaija Cajun, French which, I didn't understand and Mariah the the woman the young woman I had met was, translating, it for me and at, some point she they both, stopped and Mariah looked at me and she said she wants to kiss you and I. Said you know what point is she wants to kiss me and I she, said she. Wants to take, some of your life and give some of your, life back to you and so. She. Finally convinced me to do this and I stood up and I, went, around the side of the table and I leaned over and I thought what I was going to get. Was a little, peck on the cheek and, and the. Gypsy grabbed me behind. The head and pulled. Me towards her and gave me a full-on, mouth-to-mouth. Kiss. And. I. Started. To pull back from her and she wouldn't allow it she made it a long healthy, gypsy. Kiss and, so. It was this memorable, moment now what happened in in New. Orleans for the rest of my time that was there was. Even more memorable and will make a great movie someday I hope. Anyway. So it's stuck with me that whole gypsies. Kiss thing so. When. I'm I didn't, know exactly what to do with it for years and years I didn't even think about it but then when, I got my first boat. When, we moved when, we, moved when I finally moved to, Washington, DC in, the military I got my first boat I decided, to name it gypsies kiss and then. I, started. A blog that talked, about my sailing adventures, with my family and the blog was called the gypsies kiss so that's. How we got the name, hope. That didn't bore you Clayton. Watson says hello, joining, you from the office this Saturday, hey Clayton working. Sounds. Like he is yeah, oh and hi. Clayton he said hi to me as well. Frank, McQueen wants to know where was Forrest, born, first. Was born in Temple Texas in, 1930, August 22nd. 1930. He was born. No. No. 1930. Are. You doing that on purpose no. I thought, it was 29, no. Didn't. He turn 88, or in the. 1880s. You. Just turned 88 right yeah that's right. Okay. Yeah. You, turn it he'll be 89 this year. That's. Right. Does. That make it all, right you. Got to do August August. All. Right. How. Did you hide like a gypsies, kiss, let's. See. Our bond pair Nebraska. Record hey. XR, but nom nom as I called you to best Nebraska. Backwards because I can't pronounce your name noticed, that, you've started your own blog. Congratulations. We're glad to see that the community is expanding, well. Done. But. The bad news is of course is that that. YouTube. Just changed, its rules so. That you can't to monetize, anything, until you get to a thousand subscribers we're, very fortunate to have that but I know, a lot of youtubers who won't, quite there we're kind of angry at their decisions so it. Makes a we think it makes it harder for the, community to grow. David. Garlic has a question knowing. What you know about Finn's, personality. Why, do you think he capitalizes. The be in home of brown if you, do not think it refers to an actual person. That's. A great question, I. So. I think that. It refers. And. I think we did it we talked about this in the show where. We talk about the. Houma brow it. Goes back to. Sometime, around mid 2017. Take, a look at it because it. Is our opinion, that, the B in brown, is, not. A proper noun it's, an indication of his respect, for Eric.
Sloan, Where. The concept, from. Whence the, concept, of brown is derived so. I I don't think it's a proper noun and I think the be capitalized. Is a reflection, of his, love and respect. For Eric's, law and I don't mean weird, love I mean man. Does. JT. Says, you believe then hid the treasure before, he was 79, or 80 and possibly still flying have you researched, his plane tail number or flight plans and logs, we. Have researched his plane tail number we have that we have the date of. His, the, intent of his sale and the finalization of sale which works kind. Of with what our. What. Our belief. Is. We. Have not reserved his flight plans, and, the reason is. He. He would have had to fly out file them if you're flying VFR and, VFR, whether you, don't have to file a flight plan so it. Would be difficult and. We. Allowed, him to tell the story of his, flight a man, shall find in too far to walk and it's. The story of that one flight to where. He stopped off in Lander. We, believe he was on his way to Cody, I. Think, he says he was on his way to Cody Wright, but. We believe that when he stopped off in Lander, that was, the. Flight in which, he hid the, treasure we, believe I don't think he said he was on his way to Cody it just kind of mentioned it within the context, of it, was four days yeah joined the board of the right, Buffalo. Bill Museum. Fibbonacci. Have. You, looked at pontius, Springs as warm-water halts, one of the definitions of Canyon cannon. Is long, pipe pontius. Springs water is piped to conscious, Springs we. Have not looked, at it that's a that's a yes no questions, no we, have not looked at it we think we've heard that rationale, before and we, know it's been. Incorporated, into. Other. Folks solutions, but. Our position on the matter is that warm waters, is. Defined. In the New Mexico State Game Fishing not, Game and Fish but New Mexico State fishing regulations we. Stick with that, okay. We. Have a wave hello, from Stephen Merrill at hey, Stephen, he said he was going to be here hi there. Clayton. Watson, what, if warm waters, isn't, referring to the temperature, of a liquid but, rather referring, to it being a liquid as opposed to ice or steam just a thought. We. We. We. Agree with you that warm. Waters does not is, not a reference to, the temperature of water it's. A reference to the. Location, of where warm water salt. And. Es is of course getting, out the facts here and telling me, 1930. He was born and June. Was born in 32, and Skippy, in 28. Thank. You Eric's. Coach. Wants. To know what, month in here did fen sell the plane. Well. The, agreement. Was finalized, by cheque in October. Of. 2003. II. But. The check bounced, and. Then. It required a wire transfer it was a friend of his it was someone he knew so, they both kind of left two. Hundred thousand dollar check bounced said what, oh, my. Goodness hello, john, bobbitt. So. The, check bounced they were friends. The money, was wired but. The. FAA has to approve all. Transfers. Of title when it comes to aircraft with registered, tail numbers so, the transaction, wasn't, completed.
Now. This. Is so. I can't remember specifically, its if what the time frame them I'm talking about is October 2003. Into. 2004. Or October. Of 2002. And into 2003. I'd have to go back I'm sure Eric if. If you could maybe. Remember. The date. On the check the, if there's, a photograph of the check on Dale. Nigel's site in one of the scrapbooks, something like that. So. Yeah, that was the -. Yeah. 2003. So, it was uh the. The sales, started in October of 2002. And it was completed in early 2003. Is. That right I'm gonna have to look it up I'm sorry it's either 2002. 2003, or. 2003. A 2004. Can't remember exactly I. Think. It's 2 & 3 I don't remember you ever sing or before, I don't either I think yeah I think it's right I think it's October, of 2002. Into, the beginning of 2003. We. Have a well. Let's just say it john bobbitt donated. $100. To our super Chad that's amazing, thank you so much john, bobbitt no. We are not going to share solution, with you even though it's $100 but no thank you very much that is. Terribly. Terribly kind. Of you and very thoughtful so that's entitles, you to maybe, a couple of questions how's that but, since. You brought up sharing, our solution, with people I'm. Gonna just say it we share everything. We don't keep anything back we. Tell you our failures, we tell you our little successes, how little they, may be if. People tell. Us their, solutions. From now on we're gonna share that with you as well, everything. With, us is open, and aboveboard, and, honest and we don't hold anything back because, we don't see a reason to we, feel that the more we share with the community and the more you share with us it's, further along the search we can get together. Somebody. Really recently, asked us how we would feel if someone else found the treasure and, the. Answer to that question is Wheatfield. Proud. And happy that we were members of the community, that, was smart enough to solve this. Solve. This problem. And. You. Know it's like the lottery I buy a lottery ticket every once in a while never, want it obviously and, don't expect to win it but. If I did it would be great we take the same approach for the treasurer like, to find it but if we don't we're gonna go on with our lives there's plenty to be done plenty. Of you know and. I. Say. Tell Shelley, all the time I'm on the you. Know back part of my life so I want to get as much done in the few. Years that I have left as I possibly can and if and if. That means the treasures found by somebody else I will find something else to do and make videos about YouTube. Videos now so. Jacques. Star's done Shaco. Uh-huh. He says I like to search with my dogs but, I think fan has said dogs have to stay in the car with, this hint that is at a National, Monument where, dogs are not allowed I haven't. Heard about dogs, having to stay in the car of you, know. I have I actually, Shaco I have an ash he heard that I. Would, be surprised it was a national monument to figure the complexities. Of getting, it off the national monument are almost. As, difficult as complex. Is getting it off a tribal, and so, I. Don't. Know necessarily that's, a hint he's, also said if. You I think he said correct me if I'm wrong but I think he's also said if you bring someone with you leave them in the car no. Matter. Yeah. I'll be back in a couple of minutes now if you have dogs and you, want to search Pilar I would recommend leaving the dogs in the car because this cactus, everywhere. It's almost impossible not to step in cactus, if you're out there and snakes rattlesnakes. Yeah, it's I would not go don't, go off the river and Pilar without, wearing, snake, skins around your calves and. Yes. Wants to know do, you know who June's husband. Was. No. I don't. But. I recall, correctly. She, was married, to a gentleman from, Montana. From, Butte that's, where they lived they lived up in Montana someplace but I don't know I don't, know his name. Okay. Paul. Amin's would. You consider that the meek could be as simple as crossing the street.
It. Could be but. But. The, meek to me is one, of the. Referenda. That not, that he's a a, religious. Man but it's one of the references, that has. Whose. Definition is, influenced, by the Bible and so. I think. That. The meaning is. Deeper. Than that. And I think it's unique, but. In. Addition you're, not going to be crossing a street because. A Street, implies that you're in a some sort of incorporated, area you're gonna be in the boonies so you're gonna be crossing a road rather. Than a street so now no. I don't think. Christon Michelle hi guys love your channel and I live in Santa Fe and have made the trip out to Cimarron. Multiple. Times now can't, seem to rule it out have you already ruled, out this location. No. Kristin. Cimarron. Is our, number one location. As well and that's. Where we'll be going back when we go back in, the spring as soon as weather, clears that's where we'll be going back to and that's probably unless. Unless I. Bump into something that just says no it's not here. We'll. We'll, go back more than once to. Cimarron, this coming year. Okay. John so we can meet so that we can, meet. Fans. Expectation. Alright. John bobbitt has a question ready yeah well thank you it's 100 all better is a hundred dollar question, I hope, so you, guys talked about a brown slide. In, the, book now, with, a bound. Slide, I'm. Thinking, of sailing. Now. With the brown wood, the brown slide, be, at the, location or near, the location, of the find. So. It turns out we. Found, out after we made that video that that the, brown slide is on private. Property that you can't get, to it you have to go around it. In. Our we've, already given, to everyone we've shared with everyone what our perception, of the word Brown is both. Whites capitalized, and what, it represents, in. The, poem and. Where. You would look for it, what's. Interesting, about, what. You just asked, John is. That. That. Kind, of material the. Kind that we refer to our. YouTube. Video regarding, the matter of the brown, is. Susceptible. To slides. But. They would not be the kind of the same kind of slide that we referred to in. Our solution, regarding, Montana the garden the gardener area of Montana, so. Yes. It is possible. Okay. David. Garlic, will, you ever do a video on heavy, loads and water hi you have touched on it a few time and other videos. I. Think, eventually. What. We'll have to do David is that, we'll, have to break down the poem and we're planning a series so, if. We don't get fans. Questions back this, week in, order to do our Tuesday show we have a plan, for you on Tuesday. Where, we're gonna talk about what, Shelley, brought up earlier and. Then. I think, after that we should probably have, programs, on each. Of the clues as we, see them in Fenn's. Poem and eventually we're gonna have to get to heavy loads and and. Motors hi so. We. Don't have it we. Don't have the video now but over the next 10. Weeks, we. Will have one on that on that particular clue, this. Is not a question but I'm gonna read it anyway from, Stephen, Merrill at I got, my solution, from Toby in 2013. He is awesome mmm, I didn't realize it was sharing it back in 2013, dammit. Well.
You're Welcome and you, can have it. And. The only thing we ask for it is. The. Only thing we ask from you is is if. You use our solution to find the treasure, you, have to let us know so that we can do an interview. Everybody. Says June's husband, was Donny, oh that's. Right, that's, right that is mentioned someplace, I don't, know where but you Donny his friend that, he went up into the. Mountains. With what was that the Gallatin when he took that trip onto the Gallatin he, went with his best friend Donny and, eventually. Donny and June, were married that's why they're so that's why they were up in the Montana area you're, right Clayton that's correct. Franks. They were also divorced. Jackie, confirms, donnie, married June. Clayton. Watson wants to know what has the winter been like in New Mexico, warmer and drier than normal are, you anticipating an early snow melt this year yeah. It's been extremely. Warm, and extremely. Dry even, up in the mountains I don't I don't. Think any of this ski basins, even opened and that's, bad for New Mexico from. Two perspectives number, one we. Are, primary. Income. In New Mexico is from tourism and, everybody. Counts especially those towns like Taos for example, count. On winter tourism for. Part. Of their income every year but. No not. And so the second thing that's bad about is that means we're gonna have low. Water levels. This year because we count on the mature melted to fill. The various. Reservoirs, along. The rivers, and. Albuquerque, gets its gets, its water I was, up in Chama, once on the Rio Chama and. As. Usual I was looking. For hints and clues and I started talking to a gentleman who was about to get into her raft and. He informed, me he he, was like the water what. Was your. Father. Father. Water. Master he was the water master for Albuquerque. And he. Explained, to me how the water that came through that Rio. Chama drainage, was. Actually, part. Of it was dedicated to hell the Carquinez responsibility. Was to make sure that albuquerque. Got its water every year so it's. Going. To be a bad water year for us because a lot, of our water we don't get rain per, se our. Water comes from the snowmelt, so it's going to be a tough year it's been very you're right it's been very. Dry. And very warm here. In Albuquerque, and the rest of the state so, it, is possible, that we may be able to get out a little, bit earlier than in. Previous years yeah. We did just get this week some precipitation some, snow and rain. Here in Albuquerque, yeah, that was the first that we've had for the season right, well. It's, it's just it's been very sparse I'll say that. So. John bobbitt remarks, I found the brown slide up in Silverton. Colorado but. It turns into a water slide in the wintertime Oh interesting. So. Okay. So check, starsin. If if, home up Brown is Sloane. It means, peace. The treasure chest is south. Of Taos I, don't, make that same connection and honestly, I'm not sure how you did I think. The, be the capital B in Brown as I said earlier is a. Recognition. Of the strength of his relationship, with, with, Sloane but I don't know necessarily that it goes beyond that, James. Cruz can you give a recommendation of, a good time to search in Lander. Well. We. Don't want you searching in Lander because lenders of town we want you searching in sinks Canyon, which. Has a lot of potential and it's. The same as anyplace else is. As soon as the snow melts I don't know how it is there there, snow up there there, there winter up there has been very different from ours so I would be hesitant to make a recommendation. There, are locations, there's. A. Tourist. Office. In lander that you can call and ask them about the weather and they also keep track of the snow melt and water, levels in, the area especially in sinks Canyon, so. You. Can give them a call and ask them how their. Winter. Was and, how much you, know how how. Long they expect the melt. To last we, went last year was it last year or, last. Year in July and they. The, melt, was still going on so. It. Was affecting, their summer, tourism, because.
People Go up there for the fishing and it, was impossible fishing, up there. On. The pupusa. Or. The popo eggie as fan, says a, little, Popo eggie. Know. Kristen yeah I wouldn't, rule out Cimarron, in the in the leash that's our number one spot so, maybe we'll see you up there Oh. JT. Wants, to know what are your thoughts on the large ball, of string, story, it seems so out of place in, the gold. And more chapter, we're, going to so we're trying to save all of those we. Do have an opinion on the matter but. We're gonna save all of those for. Our. Book club as we go through them in chapters because, each. Chapter. Leads, to the next and they're, all kind of connected and maybe that ball, of string will explain. All that so we'll, answer that question when we get to that chapter. Shaco. Have. You ever heard of a different treasure, story in new mexico called Victoria. Speak, I, have. Heard of it I have. Heard of this story but I haven't, it's. One of those that that I have a book on my on my shelf, back here called, treasure, stories, of New Mexico and it's listed in there but I haven't followed up to the one, treasure a lifetime, I think is enough for me. Paul. Ammon says I like trout waters being where, warm waters halt do, you think that, it. Is not, in concrete. Could. Change tomorrow, like, a blaze on a tree. Gosh. I don't know I mean, it's pretty concrete it's part of the regulations, and the regulation, is defined. Where. They are but one of the things that I've said and is, that the, one, expectation that, we can have about, searching. For Fenn's treasure is that, our world the world in which we reside. Is, going to change. That. That River routes are going to change and there's going to be mudslides, and rockslides and there's going to be fires so, you can expect that change, what, you have to do is, you. Have to do your and I've said this before I'll say it again you have to do your research in the, context, of the time period in which Fenn. Wrote, the. Poem so. Even, though let's, say you. Know 30 years from now New Mexico runs, out of brown trout and as, a result of the change there's, a change in fishing, regulations. You would be wise to ignore. Those fishing, regulations and go back to the fishing regular regulations. Of the time period in which fen wrote. The poem so, you have to do it in you, you, have to consider the poem even if you're searching not, not that any of us will but, if you're searching a hundred years from now or a thousand, years from now or ten thousand years from now you. Have to do what every good searcher, would do and you have, to search in the context. Of the, period, in which in, fens case the poem was written if, you look at all the treasure hunters that do all that. Hunting. On the. Shores. Off of Florida looking for Spanish, gold golf gold and silver filled Spanish galleons they, always do their research in the context, of the time period as opposed to what's going on now because they know what's going on now change you. Know so. Those. Those, wrecks don't look anywhere. Today, those wrecks don't look anywhere, near what. They looked, like two. Or three hundred years ago. Okay. So leaping, into the next, question that kind, of goes, with, that Frank. McQueen, forest, talks about himself as an old man but, thinks like a thirteen year old what. Are the chances he wrote the poem using that mentality, I. Think. You have to look at it from two perspectives so. When. You look at how he constructed, the poem. He. Was he. Was the adult in the room to. Use a common. Phrase he, was the adult in the room when. He architected. Architected. It.
He. Was the child in, the room when, he told the story. So. Although. An adult, might. Might. Have a good understanding how. Of how the state of New Mexico defines, its fishing regulations. Especially. When it comes to warm waters the. Child in, the room described. It. So. I think it's the combination of the two things so you have a mature architect. And a. Childlike. Storyteller. And when. You go to analyze, the poem you have to consider those two possibilities. That. There were two people in and, at that desk. Constructing. That poem and I, think that also is. Indicative. Of. When. Finn says, hand. It to a child. He'll, make sense of it or he or she will make sense of it and they'll help you with a search I think that's what he means the, adult in the room architected. The poem the, child in the room Finn's. Room told, a story. Paul. Would wants to know has Forrest ever talked about a Tim. Or, an, Ione, and does. Forrest know Chinese. I. Don't. Believe, he knows Chinese I've never heard Forrest speak any other language, than English. And. I. Don't, and my. Experience ever, remember. Reading anything, about a Tim or is. It pronounced yoni, I. Own. So. They use. Yoni. Is a Israeli. Name. DJ. Nava Tec I still. Think heavy loads and water high is a waterfall what do you think I. So. It. Depends. Because. The. Some of the solutions, were exploring especially, in the Cimarron area. It. There's. What. We refer to as leakage, right there's these little tiny sources. Of water high, up on the hill that. Would only be called waterfalls. Because, they're falling, down the face of a rock so. It. In. The broadest definition. We. Think it, it, might be water, falling. As, opposed. To, it. Doesn't necessarily, mean, that it's a waterfall as much, as it, could refer to water, falling, which, we think is two different things. So. John. Bobbitt asks a question but other people have answered him but I was reading anyway Toby, what does um compadre. Mean I know it's, ute, Indian, language, as in, the. On, compadre. River, and. He. Was answering, his youth for red waters, by. Beck, oh. So. Then William Jordan. Williams. Immerman says do you think forests will publish his autobiography. If the treasure is found in his lifetime. You. Mean if you mean the autobiography. That he placed, in the. Treasure. In the olive jar in the trevor chip treasure chest i, am, not convinced. That the auto quote. Autobiography. Unquote, he, post in the treasure chest, is much. Different, from the. Thrill of the chase I don't, I can't imagine why he would write two separate things, so. You. May already have a. Copy, of the, autobiography. That's in the treasure chest in. The thrill of the chase in the thrill of the chase right. John. Bobbitt wants to know what do you get when, you mix gray and copper, together what color is it. You. Get a bronze, adult, bronze. Basically. Because. Anytime. You add gray to a color. On. The on the color wheel, adding. Gray to a color is a way to, take. Away both contrast, and brightness, so. You got a duller version, of copper which at that point it's going to be kind, of like bronze not. Brass but on the. Range of bronze. Wow. Art. Major. Okay. Shaku I think, fen might use literature, references to, his clues like where warm waters halt matches, up to warm, waters, halting, in Catcher in the Rye and home, of brown meek. Matches. Up with stuff, from Journal, of a trapper okay, just because you put a question mark at the end of a statement. Shaco. Doesn't, make it a question that, is not a question and so, that's a statement of opinion so. You. Got if you got a question there you got to ask a question, okay. Have. You limited your search areas, to only a certain type of land ie are, you, only searching, on BLM, land, etc. It. Would be easier for me to tell you where we're not searching we're not searching on tribal tribal, land and we're not searching on private land. Or. National, parks well. No national. Monuments. We. Are. We. Do have locations, in, national, parks yes, but. We'll. Go back to our fundamental. Premise, of. You'll, if we, find the treasure you'll, never know where we found it. Right. That. Ends up creating. A whole new set of problems for the finder regards. As words fail. Oh Jim. Fabrication. Oj, ms fabrication. I thought, I remember, somebody maybe, AGK saying that then stated.
That The clues actually, start with the, warm waters, line and our, chronological, after. That do you know where or when he said that that's, in one of our just the facts videos right yeah, it's I think if you go to our, first just. The facts video, it explains. What. Fen said about, the clues and it. Has the citations. For what. He said them do you remember Shelley you. Read. It do you remember exactly what he said kind of paraphrase what, was your, let's. Well. The, time. That he said where warm water salt is the first clue is in the radio New Zealand to interview, radio, creative which, is on arch on our channel you can find it if you look for it, and. The. Chronological, after, that was in the Lorene Mills interview. Right he said it was they, were in the, order, he. Didn't say chronological. That's not the word he used was. It. Continuous, I could do it. He. Used consecutive. Right they were a consecutive. In consecutive. Order he, used the word contiguous. At moby-dick, ins but, it's very difficult to determine whether he was actually referring, to the clues in the poem you have to do an analysis, in order, to do that but, who. Asks that question, James, fabrication. JM. If you. Go back to the, first. Just. The facts that we made a couple of weeks ago about. The the poem the clues in the poem that. Information, is in there it, explains it and it has the citations, for it and. I think the citations. Are included, in the description window. Aksarben. Asks, why do you think first been wrote home of brown the, way he did why, would you write it in the way you would, translate, Spanish why, not Browns, home the, way English constructs. Sentences. Well. Your the assumption, that you're making is you're referring to a brown that is a upper, noon. In. In which case that would be true I'm not sure that fan. Would necessarily make that connection with, Spanish. Because, he speaks and he writes and he thinks in English he doesn't think and and, speak and write in another language but, again because it's not a proper noun that the B in brown is not. Intended, in our opinion, to be a proper noun then all of that goes away. Which. Could make your next, vlog. Exurban. Shekel. Wants to know do, you think Finn has a reason, to tell us about other books a. Checker. That's an interesting question in this sense, that you. You. Have two separate, phen the. Treasure, hider, from, then, the. People the the individual. That wants people to experience, more of life so. When, the subject, of Osborne. Russell comes up or fly water comes, up or Catcher. In the Rye or, any of Hemingway's, books comes up. I. Am. Not from experience for my personal experience I'm not necessarily convinced. He's referring, to them as a. Hint. In support, of the clues in the poem, as, much. As it is a, desire, to share. His. Experiences. And inspire, you, to. Share. In those same experiences, I mean question, I have for you is how many of the people in this chatroom have purchased, or, attempted, to purchase the right edition, of fly, water or. Robert. Redford's book or. Now, have a copy conspiracy. Did, your if you've ever seen Mel Gibson and conspiracy. It's. Funny because he. Has an obsession obsession. He, can't pass by a bookstore without buying a copy of Catcher in the Rye. So. Shaco I. Don't, know necessarily that all of them are references. To clues. Or hints. Associated, with clues in the poem and the reason I don't think it said is there's too many references.
To His. Books I think, he loves his books I think he loves reading his books and I think that, loving. And reading his books is part of his life just look at the Shelf look. At his bookshelf and you can see how much he cares about his books and how important, they are to him and I think he wants to share that in the thrill of the chase at the same time you. Can't help but read, Osborn, Russell, and, his. Journals. And see how much time he spent in Lander. In and around Lander, and not, wonder can. I that's that's one of the things that got us to the lander area two sinks Canyon so it, is possible. Jay. Miller says, do you think that Eric Sloan had shown, mr., Fenn this special spot, Jay. Miller, no. I, don't think Sloan. Was as much of an outdoorsman as, fan, but, I do think, that fan could, and may very well have, shared. His special spot with Sloan a special. Spot is. When. You get a special spot one of the things about a special spot is that, you want to share it with the people that you care most about and. I. Think he would have done that too poem and because I'm, sorry that he would have done that to Sloan and that, because now. Sloan is dead. Two, people can keep the secret. Angel. Heart Studios, wants. To know where is Mount Cimarron. I don't. Know we, refer, to the, Cimarron. Because, it's, Cimarron, Canyon, Cimarron. State Park, the. Cimarron River, but. I don't know there that necessarily, that there is mount Sumeru. Journeymen. Wants to know will. You writing, Clayton's. Got a leaf take care of Katie I'm sorry I probably already missed you because, the chat is slower than we are yes. Journeyman. Wants to know will you write a fictional, book like oj if we found the treasure we, would have found it here. That's. Good. I. Don't. Know we have got it yeah. There's. A couple of other books that we have to write before. We before, we do that so. Thank. You thank, you for believing in that we're gonna find the Treasury I don't know if we're as convinced, as everybody else that. We're gonna find the treasure. Angel. Heart studios is Mount cinnabar, and Mount, Cimarron. The same place, no, they are not cinnabar, is up in Montana. And it's, named after a. The. The. Element. The element. That's. Found in the area's cinnabar is actually a. Type. Of Earth. That. Has, identifiable. Properties, but no Cimarron, is. The, Spanish word for wild. And untamed. Seem at all. James. Cruz says he has fly water uh. I'm, not sure what this means but Ryan Garcia, says what's the story on the colon. :. Oh there's there's a colon, after. The. Word nigh, in, the poem I think it is and there's. A lot of discussion. We. Haven't been, involved in that unfortunately, Ryan we haven't been involved in that discussion. And. Exurban. Also has both fly waters and the Robert Redford book, yeah, everybody, buys the first book because when you buy it it's what pops up and you can get it cheap and then. You go to find the other one it's going to cost you but, I think I paid 135. For the first one after it became popular a books, calm, thank, you. Calles. Are you still with us. DJ. Nava tech agk is worth buying. The, other books, after. Thrill of the chase to help find the clues and your search is it worth getting. The other two memoirs, to. Help with clues why don't you answer that show I don't. Believe so venez always said that the. Hints are in, the thrill of the chase to. Read that book to, read the poem that's, where the clues are. The. Only reason, to read the other memoirs, is to, get to know fen better which. We. Believe can can. Only help, to. Know the person who hid the treasure. Krista, Michelle. Have. I gone too far no that's where I was okay. Have, you considered modify, a tree's prayer trees created, by Native Americans with, a tree itself being the blaze seems. This would be extremely special, to that if he words you have found it we. We. Think what. You suggest, has some potential in the sense that it has that Native American poet has that spiritual component but, we just think the trees aren't going to be especially if you made it something as something. As important as the blaze that blaze. The. Blaze, has. To have permanence. Otherwise. This, whole thing is lost then it just becomes you, know the equivalent. Of the lodge lost, dust, well. Between. These headphones and trying to say it it becomes the equivalent.
Of The Lost Dutchman. Mine there's. Nothing, that points to it and certainly, if you, were to make the blaze a tree there, is a very, good possibility that within a very our. Lifetime, that, tree may be gone whether it's a spiritual, tree. Or not or or represents. A spiritual, area or not it's, just not going to be there so with that we believe the blaze has to have something of greater. Permanence. And that's. Why we tend to look for blazes. In the faces. Of cliffs. Paul, Wood says, do you think no paddle up your creek means on top of a hill or mountain, no. We think no paddle up your creek means specifically. That you're going to be at the. Bottom of a creek bed that you're going to have to go up and it. May have water or not. But. In either case whether, it has water or not it would not be enough to paddle, up. Laurie, James that, one very literally, yes. Laurie J masks, Laurie. James, asked Toby. Have, you ever fished, Costilla, Creek I have, I've fished, most, of the rivers in most, of the rivers that have trout in them in northern New Mexico Costilla. Is one of them and Costilla is also, one of the area's the. Coast II of Crow Creek is a. Creek on which warm water salt. Jackie, maiden. Wants. To know how old was, Forrest when he met Eric, Sloane and how long were they friends. Whoo. I don't know the answer to that question. Eric. Died in. 1985. Fenn. Got, to. Santa. Fe in, 1972. I would, so, the maximum range is he. He would have met him when he arrived in Santa Fe in 1972. He died in 1985. So, the. Maximum, time he could have known him as. Well. He, also, knew. Him as a result of representing, them and, representing. Him rep fen. Representing, Eric Sloane in his, gallery so, the the the range of, having, known one another is 1972. To 1985. When. Fenn arrived in Santa Fe to when when. Sloane. Died. So. That's 13, years and. Then, you have to subtract, he didn't know him until he started until. He started. Representing. Him in the in. His gallery so I don't know exactly but it was no more than 13 years or, we can go with Eric Schmidt's answer which is it, was 45, and he known for 10 years okay, there we go. He. Was 45 when he met him mm-hmm. Right so that would have been 1975. That would would fit yep, he was if he met him and he. Arrived in Santa Fe and 72 about him and 75 when he started representing, him in his gallery and then, and. Then, Sloane died in 85. And, Josh. Are wants. To know when do you believe mr. Fenn first became, aware of his secret, spot. Sometime. After. That's. Interesting, so we, believe his secret spot is in New Mexico so the conclusion, you could easily come to is that, he, found his secret spot, sometime. After 1972. When he arrived, here but. He. And. He covers this I think in the book he. Always. Or. Implied. That he always wanted to come back to know he wanted to come to New Mexico so, he knew about New Mexico before 1972. And, I. Think. The story in the book and I'm not, gonna be able to recite, it exactly so I'll paraphrase it when, when. He was retiring from the